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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Reloading 22 rimfire. (Read 2313 times)
only1shot
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Reloading 22 rimfire.
May 10th, 2019 at 9:15am
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  Hi all:
I just stumbled across a web site that shows a company that sells empty primed 22 long rifle cases. The cases are brass plated steel. They sell for $42.99/2000 cases.
They also sell lead bullets and a loading die and shell holder.  There is also a video showing how they load these cases with their loading kit.
There is also information for a company that sells a loading/casting kit for 22 rimfire for $79.95. I bought one of these kits still in the unopened package at a local gun show last month for $5.00. People laughed when I bought it!
A person could load their own ammo with bullets or shot cartridges. Might be worth looking into. Right now, the empty cases are on back order. One can sign-up to receive an email when the cases are available.
The company is Federal Arms. Just type in fedarm in your search bar and the company pops up. Hope this helps someone.

    Bill
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Reloading 22 rimfire.
Reply #1 - May 10th, 2019 at 10:13am
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Thanks! I have a mold for .22RF bullet that came with my Cody Ballard in .22LR, but never been able to locate empty brass. That's a great price, and I'm going to buy 2000, and the die they also sell for loading them.

Bummer. Tried to order, but it came up, "Sorry this product is unavailable."
  

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only1shot
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Re: Reloading 22 rimfire.
Reply #2 - May 10th, 2019 at 10:59am
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  Hi all:
Right below where it says "out of stock" there is a box to be placed on the waiting list. They will inform you when they are in stock.

    Bill
  
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Re: Reloading 22 rimfire.
Reply #3 - May 10th, 2019 at 12:48pm
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I just added myself to the list.

Frank
  

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Re: Reloading 22 rimfire.
Reply #4 - May 10th, 2019 at 12:59pm
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Where's the link to the 22 empty brass on Federal Arms? Spent 10 minutes trying to find it

When and if the brass is back in stock, here's a easy loading procedure thread: (You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)

I've since modified the process:
* Old West  22 LR 3X Brass Mold 40gr $135.00      and Adj Shell Plate
* Expand case mouth with Lee Universal Expanders
* Put 50 expanded cases in a Win 209 empty tray
* Charge cases on tray under a Ideal #5 charger with micro bar with 4.5gr Swiss Null-B
* Seat and crimp with either Lyman H&I die or CH4D seating/crimp die
50 reloads take about 20 minutes
Smokeless reloads = 1.7 to 2gr Bullseye
  

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Re: Reloading 22 rimfire.
Reply #5 - May 10th, 2019 at 1:12pm
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Please educate me, what is the purpose of loading your own 22lr.
Better acurracy or less expensive or maybe both? I do find this kind of interesting

Thanks

Doug
  
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Re: Reloading 22 rimfire.
Reply #6 - May 10th, 2019 at 1:49pm
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  Hi all:
Once you find the web page: On the top of the page, place your cursor on products. A list will drop down. Click on ammunition components. Then, on the left side, scroll down to primed brass and click on it.
This will take you to the unprimed brass and you can also watch a video of how to load. I don't know how to post a link.
This unloaded brass would be great for people to load with black powder or experiment with different bullets and powder charges. One could also load shot cartridges or produce blanks.
These cartridges are brass coated steel. I don't know if this would make any difference or not.

    Bill.
  
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Re: Reloading 22 rimfire.
Reply #7 - May 10th, 2019 at 1:53pm
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Silver they can also be used for breech seating purposes that has already been proven to work out very well. If memory serves me right Frnkore placed 2nd in one of our 100yd. rimfire benchrest matches doing just that. It was also a real Hoot to see it taking place and Frank please correct me if I have that placing as being incorrect it's been quite a few years back. And of course it also provides one to develop his own rimfire loads to achieve the best in accuracy and not just simply a rich man's game that most just cannot afford to pay to win.
« Last Edit: May 10th, 2019 at 1:59pm by JLouis »  
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Re: Reloading 22 rimfire.
Reply #8 - May 10th, 2019 at 2:42pm
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silver wrote on May 10th, 2019 at 1:12pm:
Please educate me, what is the purpose of loading your own 22lr.
Better acurracy or less expensive or maybe both? I do find this kind of interesting

Thanks

Doug

As JL says, I've done fairly well, breech seating 22rf and it is much cheaper than buying match ammo.

It's pretty easy to do, I have to go to town right now but, will post a link to my thread about it, later.

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Re: Reloading 22 rimfire.
Reply #9 - May 10th, 2019 at 4:44pm
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Here is the thread:

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In my last match in Spokane, we had a 20 shot, 200 yard match. In that one, I placed 3rd, against the best 22 rifles and ammo, in the US.

It was also, the very first time that I've shot 22rf at 200 yards.

Frank
  

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Re: Reloading 22 rimfire.
Reply #10 - May 10th, 2019 at 6:24pm
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This is the link! 
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I'm on the wait list for 4000 to add to the 40xx Amscor in inventory  Hunting Shack years back had 9 boxes of 5000 that went like greased lightning and after that - Nobody would sell primed empty 22lr cases ... "legal liability" so they said

I'll bet fedarm is building an order of 500,000 cases which takes 250 wait list orders @ 2000 pieces ... when I called Armscor asking them to sell more empties, was told "Buy an order for 500,000 and I'll have them to you next week"
  

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Re: Reloading 22 rimfire.
Reply #11 - May 10th, 2019 at 6:33pm
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Quote:
Please educate me, what is the purpose of loading your own 22lr. - with BP because very few of us do and since BP 22LR rounds are obsolete now ... 'Stepping back into Time"
Better acurracy - Yes or less expensive - Yes or maybe both? I do find this kind of interesting

So spread the word 22LR primed empties are available since 2009 and enjoy reloading & shooting them
  

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Re: Reloading 22 rimfire.
Reply #12 - May 10th, 2019 at 8:08pm
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The idea of brass-plated steel cases sounds like something out of Russia or China.  Is the priming corrosive?

I'm one of those lucky guys who jumped on the Armscor deal back in 2009.  Never followed up.  Probably a good thing.  My guess is that the primed empties are on the verboten list in the PRK.

Frank:  Are you using anything to hold the powder in the case?  Floral foam?
  
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Re: Reloading 22 rimfire.
Reply #13 - May 10th, 2019 at 8:20pm
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No, my basic load is 1.5-1.8 gr B'Eye and I can't remember ever spilling powder when chambering the case. I can load fast enough for everything but BR 50 but, I never tried shooting BR50 because I didn't think I could keep up.

All the components are very small and I have fumble fingers with things like that. I think I could have done it in my younger years though.

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Re: Reloading 22 rimfire.
Reply #14 - May 10th, 2019 at 8:58pm
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Frank what bullet/weight were you shooting and what twist? Assuming it is a .224 bore.

Been wanting to try that for the longest.

Don
  

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Re: Reloading 22 rimfire.
Reply #15 - May 10th, 2019 at 9:50pm
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Since brass-plated steel cases seem an unnecessary production expense and for me hint at deception, I'm also suspicious about why.

Bill Lawrence
  
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Re: Reloading 22 rimfire.
Reply #16 - May 11th, 2019 at 2:47am
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don1885 wrote on May 10th, 2019 at 8:58pm:
Frank what bullet/weight were you shooting and what twist? Assuming it is a .224 bore.

Been wanting to try that for the longest.

Don

Don,
I started out in 1990 with a 16 twist, match chamber and a 48 gr bullet, .222 groove. The barrels where Douglas and Titherington.

My current barrel is a PacNor, 14 twist, .222 groove. It's a match reamer but, I cut the chamber to .775 long (Sporting chamber length), to get more capacity for heavier bullets with the 14 twist.

In the 16 twist rifles, I used a .52 long bullet, in the 14, I use a .56 to .60 long bullet, 52 - 55 gr..

Frank
  

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Re: Reloading 22 rimfire.
Reply #17 - May 11th, 2019 at 8:43am
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Any trouble with blow back leakage Around case mouth? I assume your bullet is a plain base not rebated? Do you have a drawing for the bullet?
  
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Re: Reloading 22 rimfire.
Reply #18 - May 11th, 2019 at 12:11pm
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Bob,
I've never had any blow back, even though the case with the pulled bullet, still has it's crimp.

Yes, it's a PB bullet. I don't have a drawing but, it's a Lee 55 gr GC mold, shortened to remove the GC.

A good bullet to use, in a 16 twist, is the Lyman 225438 with the GC removed.

Frank
  

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Re: Reloading 22 rimfire.
Reply #19 - May 11th, 2019 at 12:26pm
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Bill Lawrence wrote on May 10th, 2019 at 9:50pm:
Since brass-plated steel cases seem an unnecessary production expense and for me hint at deception, I'm also suspicious about why.

Bill Lawrence

Bill I don't think they are plated steel. This is all that I could find on the site:

Quote:
These are bi-metal brass plated casings made in 2018 used for producing .22LR ammunition.


It doesn't say steel. Bi-metal can be Zinc, with brass plating. I have found a LOT of Zinc cases,  in 223, 308, 7.62x39 and 7.62x54. It would make much more sense to make them out of Zinc.

Frank
« Last Edit: May 11th, 2019 at 1:30pm by frnkeore »  

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Re: Reloading 22 rimfire.
Reply #20 - May 11th, 2019 at 12:55pm
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The word 'plated is what throws me.  I always thought 'brass' cases were an alloy of copper and zinc.  Reason why at the scrap yards - they won't pay full brass prices for cases turned in for scrap
  

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Re: Reloading 22 rimfire.
Reply #21 - May 11th, 2019 at 1:32pm
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My last paragraph above, was confusing (even to me) so, I re-wrote it.

Frank
  

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Re: Reloading 22 rimfire.
Reply #22 - May 11th, 2019 at 2:06pm
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The description for the .22lr cases seems vague. I'd wonder if zinc can be drawn into the form of a cartridge case. I'd think zinc, plated or not, wouldn't stand up to that heavy ID stamp, let alone a firing pin strike or chamber pressure. I wouldn't doubt zinc plates all sorts of things.

On appearance, those cases seem to be normal drawn brass. I'd think bi-metal more than likely means a brass alloy. Maybe, some of the comments in the description were added for fill, at least I wouldn't expect a product that was different than one of the common mass produced loaded shells. Only thoughts.
  
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Re: Reloading 22 rimfire.
Reply #23 - May 11th, 2019 at 3:43pm
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I joined the waiting list, so now we'll see if I live long enough to get a reply!
  

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Re: Reloading 22 rimfire.
Reply #24 - May 13th, 2019 at 9:33am
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  Hi all:
I just checked the fedarm website and they have 2000 pieces of primed brass and 2000 18gr. cb bullets for $49.99! If anyone is in a hurry for brass, these kits are available now. There are 14 kits left. That is only $7.00 more than the price of just the brass.
For $9.99 more, you could also get the die and shell holder. Total price for the complete kit with postage is around $84.00.
I sent them an email yesterday asking when they think the empty brass will be available. I will let you know if and when they reply.

  Hope this helps'
       Bill.
« Last Edit: May 13th, 2019 at 9:42am by only1shot »  
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Re: Reloading 22 rimfire.
Reply #25 - May 13th, 2019 at 2:08pm
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Thank you, Bill.

Frank
  

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Re: Reloading 22 rimfire.
Reply #26 - May 15th, 2019 at 12:44pm
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Just got an e-mail from them saying the primed cases were back in stock Still debating ordering them. ratseye
  
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Re: Reloading 22 rimfire.
Reply #27 - May 15th, 2019 at 1:55pm
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I'll give updates when the goodies arrive, they say they shipped me one of the kits yesterday.  (one of those things that sucked me in... what did PT Barnum say???)
Greg
  

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Re: Reloading 22 rimfire.
Reply #28 - May 15th, 2019 at 2:57pm
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  Hi all:
I received two emails from them today. The first one showed they had one in stock. The second one said they would be in stock by the end of the week!
I noticed they have a place on their web site that says they will refund your shipping if you write a positive review on a major web site or give a positive review on youtube!
You might be able to save some money.

   Bill.

  
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Re: Reloading 22 rimfire.
Reply #29 - May 15th, 2019 at 3:21pm
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Quote:
My guess is that the primed empties are on the verboten list in the PRK.

Waterman - fyi, try instead of PRK
Armscor Avenue, Brgy. Fortune
Marikina City 1809 Philippines
  

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Re: Reloading 22 rimfire.
Reply #30 - May 15th, 2019 at 3:50pm
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Says ... 50 in stock
This tells me .... In 4 days they came up with 100,000 cases  Roll Eyes
Anyway, on Sunday I ordered the $49.95 kit.  This gives me 2000 more cases added to the 4xxx  that I already have, plus their goofy bullets. Enough is enough cause I've got all the other stuff needed to do the reloads
  

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Re: FedArm 22LR Headstamp
Reply #31 - May 21st, 2019 at 3:33pm
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Mystery solved on who makes the FedArm 22LR Primed Empty cases ...
Headstamp = SO
SO      Sako A. B., (Suojeluskuntain Ase-je Konepa ja Oy), Riihimaki, Finland
All case mouths are chamfered and all cases are brass and come in 100 empties to a plastic lid container (no markings)_
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Yet, I could not find that Sako makes 22LR ammunition Roll Eyes
Plus the 2000 18gr Calibre bullets are all swaged - perfectly filled out. Add 1.7 to 2.0 Bullseye and your good to go  Wink for the 40 gr bullets Nice also, the little heeled bullets drop perfectly in the cases with no need to expand the case mouth - but the powder charge for these has to be determined
Totally pleased with the quality order!
« Last Edit: May 21st, 2019 at 9:46pm by John Boy »  

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Re: Reloading 22 rimfire.
Reply #32 - May 22nd, 2019 at 5:12pm
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JB,
My order showed up today and it's just as you described.  They are brass plated as they DO stick to a magnet!  If we didn't have 6" of snow on the ground #$%$^! and now it's turning to rain!  I'd be out at the range promptly sending a few down range in the fast twist Ballard - trying the breech seating thing with some 50 and 60 grain experimentals....
Greg
  

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Re: Reloading 22 rimfire.
Reply #33 - May 22nd, 2019 at 5:21pm
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Greg,

Any way you can test a couple of cases for corrosivity of primers?  Maybe (with proper eye protection) hold 1 or 2 in a vise, with case mouth aimed at a clean & recently filed piece of iron.  Ignite priming with a center punch & hammer?  Steel cases just scream Russia.

Dick
  
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Re: Reloading 22 rimfire.
Reply #34 - May 22nd, 2019 at 5:30pm
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Dick,
I will do that this evening! I have a small test chamber already and I'll screw on a freshly machined tube.
Greg
  

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Re: Reloading 22 rimfire.
Reply #35 - May 22nd, 2019 at 6:29pm
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GT - I'll try it again ... I cut 2 empties with a knife and saw no other color than a brass color
And for the good of the order: loaded 100 of the peanuts and shot them in the basement trap - All ignited and such a small lead splash on the plate.
Also did a Cx for cost of 50 rounds: 2.0gr Bullseye and 40gr bullets = $2.21
  

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Re: Reloading 22 rimfire.
Reply #36 - May 22nd, 2019 at 10:21pm
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John, Dick,

I fired a couple from a test chamber directly to a freshly machined surface, I noticed a hint of ammonia odor? one case severely marked the bare metal, the second had very little marking...? same setup and distance.  Tomorrow should tell a story.  I also cut a case apart with a pair of scissors after firing, everything about it appears to be brass but a magnet attracts it.  Attached photos.
Regards,
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Re: Reloading 22 rimfire.
Reply #37 - May 23rd, 2019 at 8:36am
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Greg: I did the magnet test also - strong magnetic clamp on the case.  Cut another one and it showed no different color than brass ... confused
I'm wondering if the magnetism is in the primer compound.  The compound in all the cases is ample - nearly all the way up near the case mouth
  

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Re: Reloading 22 rimfire.
Reply #38 - May 23rd, 2019 at 9:07am
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No the primer compound - several spent cases also stuck to the magnet
  

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Re: Reloading 22 rimfire.
Reply #39 - May 23rd, 2019 at 11:15am
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John,
They are definitely plated steel cases.  The ad stated bi-metal so I'm going to go with that.  12 hours on the plate and there's no signs indicating corrosive, a dull grey - no rust - 12 more hours should be enough? 
There is no shortage of priming compound in any that I've observed.  Just weighed a sample selection of about 25 cases, they weigh from 10.6 grains to 10.9 grains - not sure if that is a variation in compound or cases - I'll soak and clean a few fired cases and run another sample set.
I have a 40 grain healed bullet mold somewhere in the mess so I may try this next, but my real interest is with the heavier bullets and longer distances.  When the weather cooperates and I don't have a mud hole to trudge through to get to the range, I'll load and fire a few, report what I get.   
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Re: Reloading 22 rimfire.
Reply #40 - May 26th, 2019 at 6:44pm
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Not Colabri...I loaded up 10 or so without powder to see if they would be similar to the primer-only Colabri.  Nope, I had 4 out of 10 shots as squibs.   I was shooting them in my K-22 pistol and I unfortunately did shoot the second shot into the bullet that failed to leave the barrel.  I can't see any damage which is probably to be expected with these very low power primers.   I shot some Colabri just to check how they sounded and stopped in my bullet trap and they were louder and put a nice hole in the polyethylene sheet under the target.  The faux-Colabri just bounded off. 

Now to play around with some loads.   Is 2 gr of Bullseye still the suggestion? it seems a lot of powder.   

I really bought these to load black powder so I can shoot in the next short range black powder cartridge match.  Nobody expects black powder 22LR  Wink

Dave
  
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Re: Reloading 22 rimfire.
Reply #41 - May 26th, 2019 at 7:23pm
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2.0 gr of B'Eye, is to much for a fixed load. I sometimes poped cases with 1.8 gr, when breech seating, in a match chamber (.610 long). A sporting chamber is longer @ .775, I would start at 1.5 gr.

Factory loading is 1.8 - 2.0 gr of a ball type powder.

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Re: Reloading 22 rimfire.
Reply #42 - May 26th, 2019 at 11:28pm
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Frank, thanks.  What mold are you using for 22lr?  I don"t like these small colarbi 18 gr bullets.  I want a 40 gr or heavier.

Dave

  
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Re: Reloading 22 rimfire.
Reply #43 - May 27th, 2019 at 1:21am
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I wasted some time this weekend making a swaging die and some punches.  The die works fine I've just struggled quite a 
bit with the punches, the first set gave me a near perfect 60 grain bullet - did a 1/2 dozen of them before the thin edges buckled and failed... These shot very well loaded over 1.2 grains of bullseye - fixed - first photo.
I made some more punches gave the edges a little more material, thought I'd balance the bullet a little by increasing the heal section length... in my fast twist barrel even... NOTHING about this batch worked 50's or 60's.  Second photo -  I'll go back to my original style of punches and change the material and heat treat methods.

Dave,
What grade of black are you planning to use?  3F still looks fairly coarse in this little case -  Smiley
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Re: Reloading 22 rimfire.
Reply #44 - May 27th, 2019 at 1:30am
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Dave,
My barrel is 14 twist and I use the Lee 55 gr mold, with the GC cut off. They weight 52-53 gr in 40/1.

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Re: Reloading 22 rimfire.
Reply #45 - May 27th, 2019 at 6:42pm
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Hi Greg,

Based on some other posts I will try 4F or Null.  I will fill the case and probably not use a wad.  I think I will try this first in my old Sears 22...with a string to pull the trigger.  I don't think it will be a problem.   I'd like to start out with a 40 gr bullet but a heavier one is also attractive.   I am just not ready to swage them but casting should be OK if I can find a suitable mold.  Frank suggested a Lee 55 gr mold with the GC cut off.  I'll bet my old surface grinder can do that and the mold won't be expensive.   I'll bet I'll need over 800 F to fill the cavity.  Frank, thanks for the info. 


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Re: Reloading 22 rimfire.
Reply #46 - May 28th, 2019 at 4:04am
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According to Vihtavuori their 3N37 powder is specific for .22 Rimfire.   The nearest match I can find among common American powders is Herco.
  
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Re: Reloading 22 rimfire.
Reply #47 - May 28th, 2019 at 10:59am
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The powder charge I read was 1.7 to 2.0 of a pistol powder for a 40gr 22LR. So I loaded 40gr bullets with 2.0 gr of Bullseye. The MagnetoSport registered 1635 fps avg (ES of 20) in a Stevens 44 - 24" barrel. The bore shot clean and no leading with full ignition of the Bullseye powder
The velocity of 2.0gr Bullseye with a 40gr bullet is equivalent to a CCI Stinger, 32gr HP bullet at 1640 fps. Eley 40gr solid bullet Hi Velocity rounds spec at 1320 fps
RQ of Bullseye = 6 and Herco =46
I also shot several of the 18gr Calibri's, 1gr Bullseye, in the MagnetoSporter with a H1 & H2 settings ... they did not register  Angry
What I also found was the SO bimetal spent cases were hard to extract from the chamber - no blow back though
« Last Edit: May 28th, 2019 at 11:06am by John Boy »  

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Re: Reloading 22 rimfire.
Reply #48 - May 28th, 2019 at 12:59pm
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Dave,
If your going to shoot a 16 twist rifle, the Lee will not stabilize. It is just stable in my 14 twist. You'll be better served with a Ebay 225438 mold or one of NOE's molds of 46 gr or less:

(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)

JB, you have proven that the steel case is much stronger than the brass case, I would have never started with 2.0 gr with a fixed load. I poped 1 or 2, out of 10, using 1.8 gr and a 46 gr bullet, breech seated, in a match chamber.

I tried Herco, long ago, it provided the highest velocity but, poor accuracy, BSed. It's also not easy to throw charges with it.

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Re: Reloading 22 rimfire.
Reply #49 - May 28th, 2019 at 2:09pm
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Quote:
Frank suggested a Lee 55 gr mold with the GC cut off.
Dave, scratch using the Lee and the extra work cutting off the GC.
The perfect combination for 22LR bullets & accessories:

.22 long rifle double cavity heel seated bullet 40 grain. shell holder and crimp die available
(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
And the perfect BP powder charge: 4.5 gr Swiss Null-B. I compared 4 other different powders for fouling & accuracy - Null-B, hands down the best
If you have an Ideal #5 charger with the micro bar - one crank every time drops your 4.5grs
  

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Re: Reloading 22 rimfire.
Reply #50 - May 28th, 2019 at 3:44pm
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John and Frank,

Thanks for the great information.  I'm sure I saw some of that posted somewhere but it is fun to keep the thread going.   I will look at the stiff John recommended.  Also, I suspect the Lee mold is aluminum, no way that is going to work to grind off the gas check. 

I will probably just shoot these in my CPA which has a nice match barrel.  I guess I could try to BSA, easier to mess with and not so heavy.   I forget the twists, where is that log book?

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Re: Reloading 22 rimfire.
Reply #51 - May 28th, 2019 at 4:09pm
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Dave, if you are going to reload the 22's with black powder, here's some data:
* 40gr bullet
* No wad
* 4.5gr Null-B
* 1130 fps per the chronograph
  

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Re: Reloading 22 rimfire.
Reply #52 - May 31st, 2019 at 2:10pm
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Chronograph Recalculation of the SO brass cases:
* 1538 fps - Initial reload powder charge - 2.0 gr Bullseye with the Old West 40.8gr bullets
New charges:
* 1186 fps - 1.5grs Bullseye, Old West 40.8gr bullet
* 1282 fps - 1.5gr Bullseye, Lyman 225438, 46gr bullet
* Have to cast more MOS custom mold of the UMC bullets, 42.8 gr with a powder charge of 1.5gr Bullseye

Note: with lower 1.5 grs of Bullseye, the spent cases extracted easily from the chamber whereas the 2.0gr gr spent cases stuck in the chamber and had to be pushed out with a cleaning rod

Anyone else have any powder charge data?
  

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Re: Reloading 22 rimfire.
Reply #53 - May 31st, 2019 at 5:40pm
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I have lots of data but, it's all with breech seated loads.

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Re: Reloading 22 rimfire.
Reply #54 - Jun 1st, 2019 at 8:33am
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Sure like to see some 100 and 200 yd group sizes targets.
  
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Re: Reloading 22 rimfire.
Reply #55 - Jun 1st, 2019 at 2:38pm
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Bob,
If you look at the link to my 22 BS thread, you will see many groups and targets.

I've won local club matches with it, against very fine match rifles and Eley ammo and at Spokane, last year, the only time that I ever shot 200 with any RF, I was 3rd in that 20 round match. Tommy Mason was first but, I don't remember who was 2nd (maybe Jack H will remember). That match had the finest 22RF rifles and ammo, in the USA & Canada. 

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Re: Reloading 22 rimfire.
Reply #56 - Jun 2nd, 2019 at 12:01am
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uscra112 wrote on May 28th, 2019 at 4:04am:
According to Vihtavuori their 3N37 powder is specific for .22 Rimfire.   The nearest match I can find among common American powders is Herco. 


Phil,  I happened to be in the local shop and noticed they had a couple pounds of this powder (3N37) on close-out, for the price they asked  Cool I got their last two, have you ever loaded any 22 rf with it?  Or have data as a place to start?
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