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mori
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converting a Winder to 25-20
May 11th, 2019 at 2:01pm
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Is it possible to convert(with a new barrel) a Winder action to 25-20  Win and would the action take that kind of pressure?Mori
  
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calledflyer
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Re: converting a Winder to 25-20
Reply #1 - May 11th, 2019 at 2:10pm
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Need a center fire breech block and extractor. Personally, I'd rather see it done with a high wall, but for cast bullet shooting you should be all right with a Winder action. Be careful of any high velocity stuff if it was mine.
  

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1isenough
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Re: converting a Winder to 25-20
Reply #2 - May 11th, 2019 at 10:48pm
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I am in the middle of just such a conversion.  I have two take-off barrels that I am lining/converting to 32-20 and 25-20 so I can interchange between the two.  I use liners from TJ's, and they are glued it and ready of the chamber reamer.  On a side note, I am doing the 25-20 barrel using a 25-35 liner.  It is slightly heavier (1/2" versus 7/16") and has a 1:10 twist versus the standard 1:14 so I can try 100-115 grain bullets.

I purchase a highwall centerfire block and firing pin from Montana Vintage Arms.  The Winder has a coil spring, so I had to drill the two holes for the legs of the spring, then moved the hammer and spring to the new block.  Worked pretty well.  Now I'm waiting for the receiver to come back from de-plating, so I can blue it and put everything together.  Then I will chamber/headspace the two lined barrels, and head to the range.

Regarding pressure, I am pretty sure the low wall was originally manufactured in 32-20 and 25-20.  Also, the Winder barrel has the high wall heavy tenon, so not much difference from a high wall in terms of the amount of steel around the chamber.  The block rails are a little shorter, but is seems it should pretty easily handle the back thrust pressure that a 25-20 or 32-20 will generate, even if loaded fairly hot.  If someone factually knows otherwise I'll be interested to hear.

Hope this helps, and good luck with your project.  Keep us posted.

Jim
  
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waterman
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Re: converting a Winder to 25-20
Reply #3 - May 17th, 2019 at 9:50pm
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Mori,

I have a couple of ideas.  Maybe we can trade breech blocks.  Let's talk.

Dick
  
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Green_Frog
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Re: converting a Winder to 25-20
Reply #4 - May 30th, 2019 at 11:24am
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It's not that difficult a procedure to convert a breech block from RF to CF by simply bushing it.  The Mann-Niedner conversion was popular at one time, but a simple change of the breech face is all you will need for a low pressure round like the 25-20 WCF.  BTW, this was a popular chambering from the very smallest (smooth side) low wall actions, so the Winder action, which is just a high wall with lowered walls, will be plenty strong.

Froggie
  
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Re: converting a Winder to 25-20
Reply #5 - May 30th, 2019 at 7:13pm
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I seem to remember reading on this sight that the winders did not get the same heat treating. Maybe it was Redsetter that had some insight.


Aaron
  

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coljimmy
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Re: converting a Winder to 25-20
Reply #6 - Jun 4th, 2019 at 9:42pm
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I do have a low wall, 87,000 range, 1894 vintage, with a set back barrel in 25WCF that shoots well for jackrabbits .  It has A. O. Niedner's stamp on the barrel.  The fellow that I bought it from realized it was set back, but the scope block was over the caliber stamp area.  He didn't know about Niedner.  It may have been a Single Shot before the rework?

James
  
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Skalkaho
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Re: converting a Winder to 25-20
Reply #7 - Jun 21st, 2019 at 9:01am
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Buy the block from C. Sharps,they are a coil Spring action.Should be a easy drop in. Made a Winder into my 22 Helm over 16 years ago.  Pic on my Avatar.Pete
  

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1isenough
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Re: converting a Winder to 25-20
Reply #8 - Jun 26th, 2019 at 10:48pm
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Skalkaho, curiosity is killing me - what is a 22 Helm?

Update to my post above - got the first lined barrel (32-20) chamber cut and a new/old extractor fitted today.  Tested with a primer-only cartridge and the new high wall block from Montana Vintage Arm lined up perfectly for a strong primer strike and cartridge extracted smartly.  Working up loads now,  and will be at the range in the next few days.  The 25-20 barrel will be next - much easier since the extractor already fits.  Maybe a 218 Bee barrel next!
  
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Schutzenbob
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Re: converting a Winder to 25-20
Reply #9 - Jun 27th, 2019 at 6:26pm
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In the 1950's R. F. Sedgley of Philadelphia PA bought a bunch of Winder Muskets from the government, and then begin selling them. Many they converted to centerfire and rechambered to 22 Hornet. I was told that they didn't shoot very well, but I never heard about them blowing up.
  
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Green_Frog
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Re: converting a Winder to 25-20
Reply #10 - Jul 8th, 2019 at 10:53pm
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Mori,

It's been a while since we've heard anything from you on this project.  Any progress to report??  I should have mentioned that I have a factory marked round barrel from Winchester as 25-20 Win, which is strange because the unaltered chamber is a 25-20 SS.  It came to me on a fairly late high wall with an original shorter fore end and a really ugly butt stock.  Huh

I'm also building another 25-20 SS on a smooth side low wall (flat spring) action.  I will tell you that the only two stretched low wall actions I have ever seen with factory barrels were both... 25-20 SS chambering.  Take that for what it's worth, but 25-20 WCF and 25-20 SS are virtually identical ballistically, so I'd guess pressures would be pretty similar.  The musket action does give you some more strength though.  Undecided

Froggie
  
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Re: converting a Winder to 25-20
Reply #11 - Jul 10th, 2019 at 10:52pm
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green frog,
It is Not unusual for a Win barrel to be marked 25-20 Win
and be a 25-20 SS.
I had a low wall marked and chambered that way.  Others have also mentioned this "thievery" by Win. of the Stevens ctg. They did that at first before they came out with the 25-20 WCF repeater ctg for the 1892 Win lever gun. and then also chambered the 'repeater" round in the low wall (and Hi Wall?)
We can note also the 32-40 and 38-55 Ballard/Marlin ctges that
"magically" became the 32-40 and 38-55 Wins.
beltfed/arnie
  
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mori
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Re: converting a Winder to 25-20
Reply #12 - Jul 12th, 2019 at 2:43pm
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Green Frog, I have the Winder project on hold right now. I had a pacemaker implanted two weeks ago and I can't shoot till the end of August. I will probably buy breech block from C. Sharps and then I will look for a barrel.This project will go forward. Mori
  
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Re: converting a Winder to 25-20
Reply #13 - Jul 12th, 2019 at 11:01pm
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after talking to people that have use C Sharps 1885 parts and my own dealings with them   with some of there parts  I think I would look at MVA frist for 1885 parts ken
  
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