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Spring roller project(s)
May 11th, 2019 at 4:10pm
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I've laid things out and I'm really on the fence as to which way to go here... It's crunch time - I finally decided on a barrel and caliber for a couple of rollers I've had in limbo.  I'm down to trying to decide the barrel configuration.  The one at the bottom of the photo is a 1901 - ('02 because of the rotary extractor?) it's going to be a 45-70 with similarities of the Creedmoor roller, cut rifling, 34" barrel, with both a tang and a heel sight. The second from bottom is a Danish and it's going to be similar in configuration, stock, barrel, sights but in a "punkin chunker" 50-70.   I have a few rollers in full octagon, a couple in half round, and one in a full round - pictured - a Danish I chambered in a 45-60 using an original highwall barrel I scrounged.  I kind of like the round barrel look for a change but I'm not sure the Creedmoor look is fitting in a full round and I don't want the gods to frown upon me when I show up with one...  I've been to the mill with the barrels and changed my mind already - this evening may present an opportunity to work on these - mill or turn?  Thoughts and opinions?  Assurances...  Smiley
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Greg
  

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marlinguy
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Re: Spring roller project(s)
Reply #1 - May 11th, 2019 at 4:52pm
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A Creedmoor is almost always full round, or half octagon. Full octagon would need to be a pencil weight barrel to be 34" and meet weight. Unless the weight part doesn't matter to you?
I went full octagon on my Creedmoor build, and heavier 3 1/2 weight, so it's well over traditional limits, but nice to shoot.
  

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Re: Spring roller project(s)
Reply #2 - May 11th, 2019 at 5:35pm
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Thanks Vall,
I'm going to be out-of-bounds with my rifle weight but it doesn't matter to me - I want a heavy rifle.  Wasn't the weight restricted to 10 lbs.?  I'll be close to that with just my barrel.   I had quite a few pictures of the Creedmoor rifles in my library but only a few appeared with full round and most were of re-makes; so round it's going to be.  The match I have in mind doesn't have a weight restriction and nothing is awful-hand.
  

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marlinguy
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Re: Spring roller project(s)
Reply #3 - May 12th, 2019 at 8:49am
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M 34" full octagon is probably a 10 lb. plus barrel also. Have another 3.5 wt. full round 34" on a straight grip roller, and it's a bit heavier.
I love 32"-34" barrels for longer distance shooting with iron sights.

My 34" full octagon:
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And the 34" full round:
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Schuetzendave
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Re: Spring roller project(s)
Reply #4 - May 12th, 2019 at 9:44am
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Marlinguy:

Nice rifles.
What is the distance between the flats on the 34" octagon barrel at the action and muzzle? It appears to be tapered.

The 30" octagon for my .50-70 Rolling Block has not been profiled yet so I do not know its final weight yet.

Ron Smith advises you should barrel first and charcoal harden afterwards to prevent damage to the action by handling by the gunsmith.

George Custer's .50-70 was 28" long but I went with 30" barrel since it burns BP better but 32" or 34" are a bit harder to hold when shooting offhand; but not a problem if only shooting off of sticks.

In the Schuetzen game 26" barrels provide the best center of balance for shooting offhand.

The longer the barrel the wider the aperture has to be for the front sight and most apertures sold are not really big enough for me on a front sight on a 34" barrel.
You can compensate by drilling aperture sights to be a bit wider.

I prefer the looks of an octagon barrel but they are a lot more work.
« Last Edit: May 12th, 2019 at 9:57am by Schuetzendave »  
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Zack T
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Re: Spring roller project(s)
Reply #5 - May 12th, 2019 at 12:39pm
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Hello GT

As someone who regularly shoots a couple original longrange rolling blocks- If I wanted a gun to shoot a lot at longrange I wouldnt duplicate the barrel weight/profile ! I think Vals guns are about right and would make weight for shooting silhouette too. I really like a 3.5 wt barrel profile on a rolling block for a shoot everything gun. Looks like a lot of fun there. Would be interested in the method you use to bend the lower tang. Best

Zack
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Spring roller project(s)
Reply #6 - May 12th, 2019 at 3:16pm
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Schuetzendave wrote on May 12th, 2019 at 9:44am:
Marlinguy:

Nice rifles.
What is the distance between the flats on the 34" octagon barrel at the action and muzzle? It appears to be tapered.

The 30" octagon for my .50-70 Rolling Block has not been profiled yet so I do not know its final weight yet.

Ron Smith advises you should barrel first and charcoal harden afterwards to prevent damage to the action by handling by the gunsmith.

George Custer's .50-70 was 28" long but I went with 30" barrel since it burns BP better but 32" or 34" are a bit harder to hold when shooting offhand; but not a problem if only shooting off of sticks.

In the Schuetzen game 26" barrels provide the best center of balance for shooting offhand.

The longer the barrel the wider the aperture has to be for the front sight and most apertures sold are not really big enough for me on a front sight on a 34" barrel.
You can compensate by drilling aperture sights to be a bit wider.

I prefer the looks of an octagon barrel but they are a lot more work.


That is an old Green Mountain tapered octagon that was NOS when I had it fitted to my action. It has more taper than usual, but I really like the look. It's 1.30" at the receiver, and .960" at the muzzle. So a little more than .010" per foot.
The round barrel is also tapered, but only about .007" per ft. taper.

I use a .040" wide post on all my rifles for long range. At 1000 yds. the post is the same width as the gong, which I think is 36" wide? Makes it easy to center it on top of my post.
  

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Re: Spring roller project(s)
Reply #7 - May 12th, 2019 at 11:22pm
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Vall,
Those are nice looking rollers!
Zack,
I agree on the profile, I shoot a lot of large calibers and really prefer to make them a heavy profile.   I'm still very active and fit for the most part and shoot a 15 -18# rifle -awful hand- fairly well but I do feel the day coming when this will be a thing of the past. 
I don't recall what my program cuts these barrels at but generally the cut feathers out 3-5" from the shoulder and the muzzle is close to 1" diameter.  If I recall, the taper is close to .0065" per inch. 
For bending the tang, I made a profile gage from an original or possibly one of Rodney's castings, I heat and bend, fill up the tang screw hole, usually the spring hole too.  I build up a boss on the rear of the tang, drill and tap this so it's a blind hole and make a new screw and spring.  I add either a stirrup or a roller (like a Hepburn) if the hammer is annealed.  If I don't anneal the hammer, I build a spring with a piece of carbide soldered to the tip upon tempering. The carbide takes some polishing or lapping but it makes a very low friction surface.
I know there are a lot of other ways folks are bending and/or changing lower tangs to fit the PG stock.  I believe it's what your comfortable with and what your conscience allows.  I've done a couple other methods and in the end it came across to me - what it was - a short cut.  I've attached pictures of a recent one - it's a ways from finished.
Regards,
Greg
  

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"If you don't know what leever A does, then leever B... you Dumb@$$"  G.C. Tryon
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Re: Spring roller project(s)
Reply #8 - May 13th, 2019 at 12:50am
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Thanks for posting your project pics. Amazing that is all that I can say. I have one of the Swedish rolling blocks and always wanted one in my favorite caliber 44 special. Great cast bullet caliber and doesn't beat you up. thanks again,Frank
  
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Re: Spring roller project(s)
Reply #9 - May 13th, 2019 at 9:16am
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For those less capable of bending their tang CPA sells a pistol grip stock inletted to accept the straight tangs of a Military No. 1 Rolling Block.

  
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Re: Spring roller project(s)
Reply #10 - May 13th, 2019 at 9:39am
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Dave,
When you have a few moments would you post a picture of the bottom of that, I remember once someone had a stock like that and they were far more handy than I with wood and they made an insert that blended nicely.  Was it one of yours?  I completely forgot about that method- may have to try that on one.  Thanks for posting.
Frank, I picked up a barrel in .429 a while back and will someday put it on an action - sounds like fun.
Greg
  

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"If you don't know what leever A does, then leever B... you Dumb@$$"  G.C. Tryon
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marlinguy
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Re: Spring roller project(s)
Reply #11 - May 13th, 2019 at 11:00am
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If you want to save a lot of work, and get a perfect pistol grip lower tang. Plus have it already shaped to sporting configuration!! Just buy a Remington pistol grip tang from Numrich Gun Parts for $45.
This is the route I took, and it's a really nice tang that fit into my military receiver with minor draw filing to take off maybe .010" off the width to fit in.
This is the Remington lower tang and buttstock I bought when I did my build:
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The stock set with metal was $165, but this custom shop stock set was the last one they had, or I'd have bought more sets.
  

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Re: Spring roller project(s)
Reply #12 - May 13th, 2019 at 1:21pm
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Greg:

Yes you can fit in a block into the slot for the bottom tang on the CPA stock or leave it hollow (not much of a gap). Sorry I sold the rifle and cannot take a picture for you.

Or buy a Numerich pistol tang but do not forget you also need to change the hammer spring as well and need a longer tang screw.
« Last Edit: May 14th, 2019 at 6:43am by Schuetzendave »  
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Re: Spring roller project(s)
Reply #13 - May 14th, 2019 at 8:08am
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The PG hammer springs are sold out at Numeric. I was going to order a spare with some other parts and was to late.
WW
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Spring roller project(s)
Reply #14 - May 14th, 2019 at 10:12am
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I tried a spare straight grip hammer spring when I built mine up, and it works just fine. I too thought a PG spring would be needed, but it wasn't.
  

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