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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) On the horns of a dilemma (Read 4494 times)
oneatatime
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Re: On the horns of a dilemma
Reply #15 - May 21st, 2019 at 11:26am
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I think Mike said he was using smokeless at 100 yards. Is that correct, Mike? If so, wouldn't a larger case be going the wrong way?
  
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Kurt_701
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Re: On the horns of a dilemma
Reply #16 - May 21st, 2019 at 12:39pm
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Here are two moderately successful loads for my 4065 Highwall. These are only at 100yd off the bench with irons.
  

M-14 3rd Battalion 27th Marines RVN 68'69'
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Mick B
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Re: On the horns of a dilemma
Reply #17 - May 23rd, 2019 at 1:22am
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My testing over the last two days has shown me that the main culprit for my accuracy woes is the chamber, shooting the rifle breech seated, accuracy, while not great, is acceptable.
The problem with the chamber is that it's .010"too big in the neck, would it be possible to have just this area sleeved perhaps ?.
Also any suggestions as to who would be the best person to make a 40/82 reamer, should I decide to go that route.
Mike.
  
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Old-Win
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Re: On the horns of a dilemma
Reply #18 - May 23rd, 2019 at 7:36am
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Mike, you'd better do a chamber cast and find a design for your reamer to see if that will clean up that large neck otherwise you'll have a little bulge in the neck which would not be good.  Manson Reamer's are good as well as PTG. Ask about wait time. There are at least two 40-82 reamer designs. One by Crosnoe and one by Higgenbothem. One has a neck and the other I believe is a strait case but I don't remember which is which. I would contact a good custom gunsmith and see what they think about lengthening  it to 40-82. Have you tried a bullet with a reduced driving band that would allow you to center up the bullet in the bore?
« Last Edit: May 23rd, 2019 at 7:44am by Old-Win »  
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gunlaker
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Re: On the horns of a dilemma
Reply #19 - May 23rd, 2019 at 9:15am
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Have you considered having the barrel set back a bit and re-chambering with a known good design?   That way you could stick with the .40-65 which will very likely be better with smokeless than a larger capacity cartridge?

Chris.
  
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Mick B
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Re: On the horns of a dilemma
Reply #20 - May 23rd, 2019 at 9:35am
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Old Win
I have sent emails to both Crossno and Pacific Tool & guage, so far I have not had a reply from either.
The bullet I'm currently using is the BACO 400 gr Money bullet which is tapered.

Gunlaker
I would prefer to not set the barrel back if it can be avoided as among other things, it would require the re positioning of the scope blocks, also the forearm attachment screw. I think I mentioned before that I only shoot BP.
Mike.
  
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Re: On the horns of a dilemma
Reply #21 - May 23rd, 2019 at 4:38pm
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Mick B wrote on May 23rd, 2019 at 1:22am:
My testing over the last two days has shown me that the main culprit for my accuracy woes is the chamber, shooting the rifle breech seated, accuracy, while not great, is acceptable.
The problem with the chamber is that it's .010"too big in the neck, would it be possible to have just this area sleeved perhaps ?.
Also any suggestions as to who would be the best person to make a 40/82 reamer, should I decide to go that route.
Mike.

Mike, what measurements are you using to come up with the stated 0.010 oversize neck dimensions. Also what does a fired case measure on the inside and how much over is that measurement from the bullet diameter?
  
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beltfed
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Re: On the horns of a dilemma
Reply #22 - May 23rd, 2019 at 5:42pm
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Mick,
Have you tried using a taper crimp die on your loads- so as to reduce the neck diameter just enough to snug up the bullet concentrically.

Another thought:  Get some 45-90 brass, Run it into your
full length 40-65 sizing die, trim to length.   The brass in your formed 40-65 case will be 0.3" from the mouth of the 45-90 and will be thicker.
beltfed/arnie
  
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JLouis
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Re: On the horns of a dilemma
Reply #23 - May 23rd, 2019 at 6:34pm
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How about just having a custom bullet mould that might work exceptionally well with what you currently have?
  
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Deadeye Bly
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Re: On the horns of a dilemma
Reply #24 - May 23rd, 2019 at 8:38pm
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It seems that in the several weeks since you first posted in another thread that your chamber has gone from .002" oversize to .010" oversize. Before you spend big bucks on anything check the butt stock bedding and make sure it is tight. Check the forend for contact with the front of the receiver. Relieve as needed. Find someone down under to cryo the barrel. Some swear by it and some say it is worthless. It helped one of mine. You are fixated on the chamber and it might not be the problem at all.
  
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Mick B
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Re: On the horns of a dilemma
Reply #25 - May 23rd, 2019 at 9:10pm
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Premod
Near as I can measure, with a dial vernier, the inside neck diameter of my fired 40/65 Starline case is .415", my bullet  diameter is .408".
As a comparison, the neck ID of my fired 40/60 case is .409" when measured the same way.
Beltfed
I have a Lyman taper crimp die and tried that, there was a very small improvement in accuracy. Encouraged by this I bought a Lyman neck sizing die and neck sized the cases, then expanded them with a .409" plug, this made the .408" bullet a nice slip fit, unfortunately accuracy was poor, worse than when just using a light taper crimp.
I have considered cutting down a 45/90 case by 3/10" and seeing how much thicker the case wall is, to date I have not done this, but will in the future.
J Louis
To fit my fired 40/65 case the bullet would need to be about  .414"in diameter, that's .006" over groove diameter, I think that may cause problems. Yesterday I breech seated a .408" bullet and then knocked it back out of the barrel, there was considerable fining on the base of the bullet, with a larger diameter this would only get a lot worse.

Thank you all for your thoughts.
PS  I have been advised that my 40/82 chamber idea may not work as it may still leave some of the large neck area intact, this may cause an issue. I have not received a reply as yet to my email to PTG.
Mike.
  
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Re: On the horns of a dilemma
Reply #26 - May 23rd, 2019 at 9:38pm
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Mike, I think your bullet is your problem or a better way to say it is you have the wrong bullet for either black or smokeless powder. A .408 bullet will work for black in most cases but will not make the grade for smokeless. But in your case the .408 bullet is getting smacked up to the .415 diameter then sheared to a .408 groove, bad mojo. When fired with smokeless the diameter should be a couple of thousandths larger than the groove which the .408 bullet will fail and go errant by gas cutting. A good .410 bullet with lots of bore ride at say .400-.401 diameter would be my choice to start with. Know any folks in your area with a variety of bullet molds? Good luck.
  
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Mick B
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Re: On the horns of a dilemma
Reply #27 - May 24th, 2019 at 6:01am
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Premod
The main person I know of in my area with a big collection of 40 cal moulds is me, I think I have about six or so. I have tried  nearly all of them at one time or another in both my 40/65 and the CPA Stevens in 40/60. I have run about 4000 rounds through the 40/60 which I have had for about  three years, the BACO 400 gr tapered money bullet seemed to perform the best so I have stuck with it. In the 2000 odd rounds I have run through the 40/65 the Money bullet in both 400 and 420 gr have been the best performers to date.
I have a SAECO bullet ( #740 ) that may be worth a little more experimenting with, this is a 410 gr bullet which I believe is .410" diameter, I will give that one another go next week.
Also I have two RCBS moulds a 350 gr .410 dia # RCB82072
the other is # RCB82086 .408" dia.
So much testing to do, so little time.
Mike.
  
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Re: On the horns of a dilemma
Reply #28 - May 24th, 2019 at 10:40am
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Mike, I would use the .410 molds for the smokeless powders and the BACO tapered for the black powder loads. Using the tapered bullet with black gets you more of the bullet in to the riflings but that in itself will not cure the fat size of the neck. Two things I would try as well is belling the mouth of the case to seal the case at firing and study the paper patching approach to get as much of the bullet into the riflings as possible and thusly defeat  the bad effects of a oversize neck. Can be done if luck is on your side, good day.
  
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gunlaker
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Re: On the horns of a dilemma
Reply #29 - May 24th, 2019 at 4:00pm
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If the inside diameter of a fired case is really that big inside then I doubt that'll you'll get it to shoot fixed ammunition well no matter what you do.   I've put a lot of time and work into a rifle with an oversized chamber once.  With the money I spend on molds, lead and powder I could have had it rebarreled a couple of times. 

Chris.
  
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