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Hot Topic (More than 10 Replies) Walnut Hill 417 (Read 1841 times)
ssmann
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Walnut Hill 417
May 24th, 2019 at 11:38am
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  I purchased this Walnut Hill 22lr off of the for sale page on this site recently. On a whim [have not been to the range yet due to flooding] I decided to load a ctg into the chamber & eject to see if by chance it would have the Pope style short chamber. The bullet shows to have indeed been seated in the rifling with same grooves present as my two Pope barreled pistols have. Would they have still been using the Steven-Pope rifling equipment when these were made? Serial number 5xx with numbers on buttstock & plate matching also. I have not removed the stock yet to check number there.
« Last Edit: May 24th, 2019 at 9:10pm by ssmann »  

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JLouis
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Re: Walnut Hill 417
Reply #1 - May 24th, 2019 at 11:52am
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Cannot answer your question but Congratulations on a very beautiful rifle purchase.
  
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Gard72977
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Re: Walnut Hill 417
Reply #2 - May 24th, 2019 at 6:56pm
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Yes that is a beautiful rifle. I thought too long when it was posted..........

Very interested in your question. I need to learn more about these old guns.
  
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slumlord44
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Re: Walnut Hill 417
Reply #3 - May 25th, 2019 at 12:46am
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My guess would be no. I am thinking that these were made long after Pope left Stevens. Also to my knowledge all Pope Stevens barrels were marked Stevens-Pope. There are people here a lot more knowledgeable about Stevens-Pope guns.
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Walnut Hill 417
Reply #4 - May 25th, 2019 at 10:25am
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If I understand the question correctly, he wants to know if Stevens was still using the Pope rifling machine, not if it's a "Stevens-Pope" or if Pope did the work?
My answer would only be a guess, but I doubt that Stevens threw out Pope's machine just because he left. I know that Fred Ross continued to use Pope's rifling machine, and ran the barrel department long after Pope left. He also switched the rifling from left hand twist to right hand twist after Pope left.
So my "guess" would be that it's quite likely the barrel could have been done on the same equipment by others in the barrel department. Doesn't make it a Stevens-Pope barrel, but they do have a reputation for very good accuracy.
  

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colo native
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Re: Walnut Hill 417
Reply #5 - May 25th, 2019 at 2:18pm
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Does it have the speed hammer??
  
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slumlord44
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Re: Walnut Hill 417
Reply #6 - May 25th, 2019 at 9:41pm
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I missread that one totaly. Good question. Did Pope bring his own equipment with him when he went to work at Stevens? If he did I would think he took it with him when he left. If he used Stevens eqipment I would assume it stayed there. I know that Pope style rifling was done at Stevens after he left but I haven't done enough reading on the subject to know who's eqipment he used there. I do know that the Stevens barrels were verry accurate both before and after Pope was there.
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Walnut Hill 417
Reply #7 - May 25th, 2019 at 11:39pm
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slumlord44 wrote on May 25th, 2019 at 9:41pm:
I missread that one totaly. Good question. Did Pope bring his own equipment with him when he went to work at Stevens? If he did I would think he took it with him when he left. If he used Stevens eqipment I would assume it stayed there. I know that Pope style rifling was done at Stevens after he left but I haven't done enough reading on the subject to know who's eqipment he used there. I do know that the Stevens barrels were verry accurate both before and after Pope was there.


Stevens bought Pope's rifling machine when Pope went to work for Stevens. So he could not take it when he left; it was Steven's rifling machine then; not Pope's anymore.

Pope rifling style did not continue after Pope left. Even barrels marked "Stevens-Pope" done by Ross were not left hand twist like they were during Pope's time there. Ross used right hand twist rifling, and that's what Stevens barrels got after Pope's departure. I own a Stevens-Pope barrel in the mid 1700 range, done by Ross after Pope left, and it is definitely not Pope rifling.
  

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Old-Win
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Re: Walnut Hill 417
Reply #8 - May 26th, 2019 at 7:50am
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Vall, my high wall with a Stevens Pope Barrel on it is marked in the 1840 range and it has left hand twist and sure looks like Pope rifling to me. Did they offer different options after Pope left and Fred Ross took over?
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Walnut Hill 417
Reply #9 - May 26th, 2019 at 5:30pm
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Old-Win wrote on May 26th, 2019 at 7:50am:
Vall, my high wall with a Stevens Pope Barrel on it is marked in the 1840 range and it has left hand twist and sure looks like Pope rifling to me. Did they offer different options after Pope left and Fred Ross took over?


It seems maybe they must have? I've examined others made after Pope's departure, which I believe was around number 1250-1300? I haven't seen one with left hand twist like Pope's, but I've seen such a small number my data isn't great.
If yours is left hand twist, and about 100 numbers higher than mine, it tells me they made them in both Pope and Ross style rifling.

Does yours also have typical Pope codes under the forearm? Mine is on a Ballard action, and was put there by Ken Briesen in 1981. He stamped his code, "KB 1981" under the forearm.
  

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Old-Win
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Re: Walnut Hill 417
Reply #10 - May 27th, 2019 at 10:00am
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marlinguy wrote on May 26th, 2019 at 5:30pm:
Old-Win wrote on May 26th, 2019 at 7:50am:
Vall, my high wall with a Stevens Pope Barrel on it is marked in the 1840 range and it has left hand twist and sure looks like Pope rifling to me. Did they offer different options after Pope left and Fred Ross took over?


It seems maybe they must have? I've examined others made after Pope's departure, which I believe was around number 1250-1300? I haven't seen one with left hand twist like Pope's, but I've seen such a small number my data isn't great.
If yours is left hand twist, and about 100 numbers higher than mine, it tells me they made them in both Pope and Ross style rifling.

Does yours also have typical Pope codes under the forearm? Mine is on a Ballard action, and was put there by Ken Briesen in 1981. He stamped his code, "KB 1981" under the forearm.


Stevens - Pope barrel markings.  Did Pope build a new rifling machine if Stevens kept his other one?  Is that the one on display in Florida??
  
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ssmann
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Re: Walnut Hill 417
Reply #11 - May 27th, 2019 at 5:53pm
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Just returned home again today, not  sure what the speed hammer is, with all the rain here, still not able to go to the range. It does release from the half cock, very strong spring, so  assume that is speed hammer? I checked the rifling using a swab & rod, it is right handed, checked the two Pope barreled pistols & they are left handed, it appears A O Niedner did not copy all things H M Pope did, as rifling in the pistol barrel by him is right handed.
  
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Re: Walnut Hill 417
Reply #12 - May 27th, 2019 at 9:48pm
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if it has a half cock, or safety , it is not a speed hammer..
  
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slumlord44
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Re: Walnut Hill 417
Reply #13 - May 27th, 2019 at 11:27pm
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He said it releases from the half cock and has a very stiff spring. I read that to mean it will fire from what would normaly be the half cock position. The Walnut Hill does not have a half cock positon and fires from what would normaly be the half cock position. Confusing to most if you are not familiar with them.
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Walnut Hill 417
Reply #14 - May 27th, 2019 at 11:44pm
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Pope built a new rifling machine after leaving Stevens, but it was in his new shop in San Francisco and lost to the great fire. So when he returned to the East Coast and set up shop in the Colgate Bldg. he built another rifling machine.
I didn't know there was a Pope rifling machine on display in Florida? I know AW Peterson's machine is on display in Mt Dora, Fl. at the Peterson Museum/Gun Shop.
  

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