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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Schuetzendave .33 question (Read 2579 times)
beltfed
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Re: Schuetzendave .33 question
Reply #30 - Jul 10th, 2019 at 1:10pm
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If the arch of the bullets was the reason for "tipping"
they would all have vertical oval holes, not random directions.
beltfed/arnie
  
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Re: Schuetzendave .33 question
Reply #31 - Jul 10th, 2019 at 1:11pm
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Opps, it should read  "arc" -- trajectory
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Schuetzenmiester
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Re: Schuetzendave .33 question
Reply #32 - Jul 10th, 2019 at 10:42pm
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JLouis wrote on Jul 10th, 2019 at 10:15am:
The lube issue is indeed Interesting and one I have not experiencd myself. I also don't have a clue what the remedy might be freshly lubed has always worked out to be the better for myself.

How do you know  year old bullets wouldn't be better?  Undecided
  

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JLouis
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Re: Schuetzendave .33 question
Reply #33 - Jul 11th, 2019 at 10:58am
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I have shot them before BobZ maybe some even over a year old. There was a time back in early 2000 that I would cast and lube enough during the off season to last me through the year. And there were a few times I would still have some that would carry over into the next. I would also shoot them in the order as cast and also a means to keep track. I then moved on to casting the same but not lubing when I started using a lube pump and would lube them the night before or the day of the match. I personally always felt these freshly lubed consistently shot the best and at the time I was using Dell59C. In 2010 I had the lower row bones of removed from my right wrist and that ended my lube pump days. I then had to move onto pan lubing around that point in time and I also started using 75% Javelina Schuetzen Lube cut with 25% Dell59C and that is still what I am using today. I also tried a multitude of lubes starting back in 1998 doing lube experiment outings but none of them worked out as well for me.
  
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Schuetzenmiester
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Re: Schuetzendave .33 question
Reply #34 - Jul 26th, 2019 at 2:23am
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All the bullets listed are longer than mine which is .996” OAL with bands taking up .717” of that. Any ideas on how long a bullet will reduce the tipping at 1400 fps?  I'm shooting 14.25 4227 in a Ballard which should be plenty in a Ballard, eh?

I noticed today shooting CBA  there didn't seem to be any tipping at 100 yards, most shots held the 10 ring with new lube.  That wasn't possible at 200 in better conditions.

I'm beginning to think the tipping makes the lube issue more critical.  Too bad I never shot 100 ASSRA  Embarrassed 

Edit:  I have a target on lighter paper I just examined that was shot a couple months ago with slightly darker lube than was shot today. There is evidence of tipping.  10 shots at 100 yds produced 9 shots in a single hole .538" wide and .274" high with a wide single bullet flyer centered .290" from the edge of the 9 shot hole.

At 200 yds the next 10 shots were 9 in about 1.75" with a flyer opening to 3". The next 10  shots were about 4" at 200 yds and less concentrated in the center.   This is typical of the lube issues.  With good year old lube, this rifle has shot quite a few 10 shot groups under 1" at 200 yds.

I calculated the angles.  At 100 yds, the tipping is approximately 2.5 degrees.  At 200 yards, it is just under 5 degrees. I only had one hole to measure at 100, but most of the shots at 200 were individual hits and the measurement was consistent.  The  angle originated around the clock face without a predominate entrance direction.
« Last Edit: Jul 26th, 2019 at 4:16am by Schuetzenmiester »  

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JLouis
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Re: Schuetzendave .33 question
Reply #35 - Jul 26th, 2019 at 12:28pm
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BobZ I am not sure what might be going on. You should very easily be able to fully stabilize a bullet up to 1.014 in length. Not knowing your cleaning methods could you possibly be removing all of the pre-lube seasoning every time you clean?
  
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Schuetzenmiester
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Re: Schuetzendave .33 question
Reply #36 - Jul 26th, 2019 at 1:11pm
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I clean with a few patches of Birchwood Casey bore cleaner Then use G96 to oil the bore. 

Maybe I just need to schedule my shooting a year in advance so the lube will be in prime condition. 

In top form, it shoots much better than Pope guaranteed  Shocked  Maybe if more shooters shot tippy bullets, they would have tighter groups confirming my experience and I shouldn't worry about it?

Undecided
  

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Schuetzenmiester
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Re: Schuetzendave .33 question
Reply #37 - Jul 26th, 2019 at 1:15pm
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BTW, Jerry's Javelina shoots the best freshly applied so far quite a few I have tried, but I only get about 20 shots before it starts to open up. Dell59C scattered the bullets off paper at 200 yds.
  

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Re: Schuetzendave .33 question
Reply #38 - Jul 26th, 2019 at 1:16pm
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Bob,
Go back and look at the targets I post on page 2.

The tipping isn't a result of twist, it is because of the buffeting occurring, while bullet is in the transonic range. Although your tipping isn't as sever as mine, I suspect that your tipping is happening for the same reason.

Your bullet is plenty short for your twist rate so, go to 14.8 to 15.0 gr or drop the charge to 13.5. In my posted targets, there is no other change but, .5 gr change from 13.0 to 13.5 in the powder charge and I haven't had tipping at that load since. Also, when I built that rifle, there was no data for it (33 ELCO Max) so, I started at 11 gr of 4227 with a borrow PJ bullet that was 1.21 long (my bullet is 1.19) and I didn't have tipping at those lower velocity's either.

Later that day that I shot the tipped target, I shot the 5 five shot group match @ 100 yards, I averaged .53, with the small group of .33, again with no tipping with the +.5 gr load.

Frank
  

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Re: Schuetzendave .33 question
Reply #39 - Jul 26th, 2019 at 5:07pm
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BobZ my 33-47 Bresien 15 twist barrel liked 14.7 grains of H-108 and a 134 grain Mos Spitzer was being used at the time. 300MP provides pretty much the results and I found 4227 to be one of the most inconsistent powders that I spent allot of time experimenting with.
  
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Schuetzenmiester
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Re: Schuetzendave .33 question
Reply #40 - Jul 26th, 2019 at 7:26pm
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I haven't chrono'd this since the mid 90s.  I should probably do that.  I just looked at the old Lyman manual.  It had 14 hrs 4227 as max at about 1300 fps.  I may have my old black powder velocities mixed up with my 33-47 memory  Undecided
  

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Re: Schuetzendave .33 question
Reply #41 - Jul 27th, 2019 at 11:40am
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Might be worth the effort BobZ.
  
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