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Packet
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.22 rim fire question
Aug 13th, 2019 at 8:39pm
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Ive noticed that every .22 RF firearm that I have seen is chambered with the rim outside the chamber. My question is, does anyone ever chamber a .22 RF with the rim flush with the chamber? Might be a stupid question on my part but we all know what people say about stupid questions.
  
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JLouis
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Re: .22 rim fire question
Reply #1 - Aug 13th, 2019 at 10:49pm
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There are no stupid questions and it all depends on how the headspace was pre-determined to be setup. Some have a very different approach than others might have and it is also dependant on the rifles intended use.
  
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Chuckster
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Re: .22 rim fire question
Reply #2 - Aug 13th, 2019 at 10:57pm
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Packet, For the record, there is no such thing as a stupid question.
Have asked many ignorant questions and always learned something.
Think most .22 RF chambers, the rim is flush with the barrel or close to it.
Chuck
  
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Jeff Houck
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Re: .22 rim fire question
Reply #3 - Aug 14th, 2019 at 12:01am
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I've checked the following guns and they all have the rims recessed so the cartridge is flush with the cylinder or the barrel:

S&W 18-3
Ballard
52 Win.
Rem. 40X
Colt Match Target
High Standard Military Victor
Savage 24D
Marlin 39A

  

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texasmac
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Re: .22 rim fire question
Reply #4 - Aug 14th, 2019 at 12:04am
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I'm no expert but it's been my experience that most single-shot falling block, pivoting block, rotating block, (don't know about rolling block but expect itís the same) .22 rimfire rifles are chambered so that the rim is relatively flat or flush with the breech end of the barrel.  I.e. a rim seat (aka rim recess) is cut with the correct seating depth for the necessary headspace and head clearance. This works because the extractor or ejector is pushed, rotated or ejected out of a slot cut into the side of the breech end of the barrel.

It's also been my experience that bolt action .22 rimfire rifles are designed with the cartridge head or rim extending out of the chamber.  But in this case the bolt face is recessed to accept the case head and the extractor is connected to the bolt, pulling the case out as the bolt is moved backward.  This design is also used in blow-back semi-auto .22 rimfire rifles.

No doubt there are exceptions to all the above.

Wayne
  

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Deadeye Bly
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Re: .22 rim fire question
Reply #5 - Aug 14th, 2019 at 8:15am
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I agree with Texas Mac. Bolt actions have the recess in the bolt and most single shots have the recess in the barrel. Someone will certainly point out exceptions.
  
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rgchristensen
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Re: .22 rim fire question
Reply #6 - Aug 14th, 2019 at 9:38am
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     Actions with reciprocating bolts have a recess in the bolt face so that the case head is supported against the extractor during the extraction stroke.   This is necessary to give reliable ejection at the end of the stroke.

CHRIS
RGChristensen
  
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Re: .22 rim fire question
Reply #7 - Aug 14th, 2019 at 9:51am
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rgchristensen wrote on Aug 14th, 2019 at 9:38am:
† †† Actions with reciprocating bolts have a recess in the bolt face so that the case head is supported against the extractor during the extraction stroke.† †This is necessary to give reliable ejection at the end of the stroke.

CHRIS
RGChristensen


Bingo!
Thanks Chris
  

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uscra112
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Re: .22 rim fire question
Reply #8 - Aug 14th, 2019 at 3:31pm
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There was a time when some .22 revolvers didn't have the rims recessed.  I can't say that I've ever seen a rifle that wasn't.
  
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marlinguy
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Re: .22 rim fire question
Reply #9 - Aug 15th, 2019 at 10:09am
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uscra112 wrote on Aug 14th, 2019 at 3:31pm:
There was a time when some .22 revolvers didn't have the rims recessed.† I can't say that I've ever seen a rifle that wasn't.


Except the older S&W revolvers. I haven't looked at newer, but my old S&W all have recessed rims.

All my .22RF rifles have recessed rims also.
  

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uscra112
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Re: .22 rim fire question
Reply #10 - Aug 15th, 2019 at 11:58am
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My Dad had a Hopkins & Allen that wasn't. He only used it with blanks to train his retrievers.   H&A made a vast array of Saturday Night Specials that sold for as little as $2.00 in the 1890s.

  
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Re: .22 rim fire question
Reply #11 - Aug 15th, 2019 at 2:16pm
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As previously mentioned for extraction and ejection, attached are pictures of various configurations.  The first is a Savage bolt, the face of the chamber end comes to a "peak" the bolt is recessed for the rimfire's head (sorry for the poor quality pic) - the second is a barrel for a 10-22, no rim recess cut - it's in the block, then a Steven barrel of some sort, followed by a #3 Ballard - like most of our single shots - the barrel is recessed for the rim.
  

"To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk"† T. A. Edison
"If you don't know what leever A does, then leever B... you Dumb@$$"† G.C. Tryon
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Packet
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Re: .22 rim fire question
Reply #12 - Aug 15th, 2019 at 6:35pm
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Thankyou all for the great replies, that is way more info that I thought I would get.
  
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CptCurl
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Re: .22 rim fire question
Reply #13 - Aug 21st, 2019 at 1:34pm
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marlinguy wrote on Aug 15th, 2019 at 10:09am:
uscra112 wrote on Aug 14th, 2019 at 3:31pm:
There was a time when some .22 revolvers didn't have the rims recessed.† I can't say that I've ever seen a rifle that wasn't.


Except the older S&W revolvers. I haven't looked at newer, but my old S&W all have recessed rims.

All my .22RF rifles have recessed rims also.



As for Smith & Wesson revolvers, it depends on your concept of "old."  The earliest .22RF revolvers had cylinders without recessed rims, and this continued until the revolvers were adapted to high velocity ammunition.  With the advent of high velocity ammo there was an unacceptable rate of rim failures if the rim was left unsupported.  S&W then lengthened the cylinder and recessed the rims to provide needed support.

In regard to the .22/32 Heavy Frame Target Hand Ejector, Neal and Jinks report that "Recessed head chambers were used beginning with serial number 525600 in April of 1935."  Smith & Wesson 1857-1945, by Robert J. Neal and Roy G. Jinks, page 48.

So S&W revolvers made prior to April 1935 did not have recessed chambers; those after that date did.  I would assume your "old" S&W revolvers came after April 1935.

Here's a view of my .22 HFT that shipped out of the S&W factory in February 1923:

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Curl
  
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Just Jim
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Re: .22 rim fire question
Reply #14 - Aug 21st, 2019 at 3:15pm
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Here's a view of my .22 HFT that shipped out of the S&W factory in February 1923:

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Curl [/quote]

Wow! That Hand Ejector Target looks like an absolute gem! Tough to find rimfires in fine condition like that. People could afford to shoot them - and boy, did they!† Wink
  
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