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Jack951
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Another new guy with some questions
May 22nd, 2020 at 9:01am
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Ok, I've read the other threads, but I have some questions and some "preconceived" notions.

I'm in NC and want to start competing in BPCR. I have shot competitively for years and tried various disciplines. My all time favorite competitions are silhouette (I shot IHMSA) and N-SSA. I have handloaded for years and cast boolits as well. I am NOT a fan of punching paper but if it's part of the overall course of fire, well, ok.

So I'm thinking a 50-70 of some type for a couple reasons. First off, it's pretty close to 45-70 and I shoot one already. Second, a 12.7x44r roller is a very easy conversion. Third, I have quite a few molds in 50cal and sizers for 50cal Civil War guns.

So my thoughts, I'd like to keep this on the cheap initially for a gun, that's why I'm looking at the 12.7. I don't want a collector item, just one that is sound with a good bore. This will eliminate the need for more molds initially and get me onto the range quicker.  Most of the comps I've found in my area don't shoot past 200yds so a 50-70 should be able to compete. Of my molds, I have a couple that I've read are very popular for 50-70 already (and with 1858 Smith shooters as well) and I have one that we had custom made from NOE that is a modified 50-70 with a "spire" type of point instead of flat meplat or round nose. The idea was to move the C/G forward a bit for better stabilization and long range performance. That was an experiment for an 1858 Smith round. I'm very curious to see how it would perform in a 50-70.

So comments or suggestions before I take the plunge?
  

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Re: Another new guy with some questions
Reply #1 - May 22nd, 2020 at 11:54am
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I would assume that from your other shooting endeavors that you have some decent sights you can put on the roller as otherwise they are going to cost more than the rifle. Also I'm not just sure how BPCR is accomplished at 200 unless the targets are scaled down to match regular 500 meter targets. If so, you will need an accuracy level of less than 2 MOA to compete successfully and more like 1.5 MOA to satisfy yourself. But, have fun at it and jump in. Who knows where it will lead!
  
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Jack951
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Re: Another new guy with some questions
Reply #2 - May 22nd, 2020 at 12:20pm
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The matches that are shot in my area are "buffalo" matches with a 1/4 scale steel buffalo figure at 100yd and a "challenging" 24in target at 200yds. I have a musket that will shoot minies to 1.5moa but they told me that it wasn't legal for their game, never mind the southern herd was done in by mostly Civil War surplus, go figure. It would have been a hoot to shoot the match with a P53 Enfield.

Sights, I don't think tang mounted Soule are necessary for 200yd. I was going to go with a receiver mounted peep for the time being. I really need get a rifle and do some load development to see if a 50-70 is going to be sufficiently accurate and adequate past 200yd. While I'm not recoil averse, I've been looking into a 40-65 as well but that will entail buying lots of new support stuff.
  

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MikeT
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Re: Another new guy with some questions
Reply #3 - May 22nd, 2020 at 1:09pm
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Jack,
Will they let you shoot the 50-70 at small [probably thin material] targets at 200 yards or less?

Keep on hav'n fun!
MikeT
  
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Jack951
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Re: Another new guy with some questions
Reply #4 - May 22nd, 2020 at 9:04pm
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I've spoken with one of the match directors and the 100yd target is a steel buffalo, 1/4 scale. So yeah, sounds like it.

The boolit I'm thinking of using should do reasonably well in a rechambered 12.7. It's about 365gr with a spire point. When we started tinkering with the initial 50-70 design, the idea was to move the C/G forward and to make it a bit more aerodynamic for use in a Smith. Haven't had the opportunity to try it in a 50-70 yet.
  

A gentleman cannot have too much red wine, too many good books nor too much ammunition
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Re: Another new guy with some questions
Reply #5 - May 22nd, 2020 at 10:01pm
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Jack,
The 50-70 in your rolling block will be a hoot to 200 yards and depending on loads, rifle weight, charge etc. it will have a very manageable felt recoil.   If it's just ringing the gongs things will be even better, if you have to tip them over, stay with the 500 -515 + range, otherwise the 400- 450 gr punkin is awesome.  Had a fellow shooter compete with one for years, a heavier barrel and faster twist and he was a force to reckon with out to 550 yards, he shot black, PP somewhere around a 575 gr with about a 2 diameter ogive for a nose, if you can imagine, in a mold I made for him... it would roll in and hit the gong like a bowling ball when he forgot to change his sight settings... Grin (happened way to often)
Punkin Chunkin had nothing on him  Smiley
I have a roller in the works with a 34" GM cut rifling 1:24 50-70 - it's getting my attention more and more - may have start it soon. 
Are you shooting black or smokeless?  Heavy barrel?  A receiver sight should be enough for your distances.
Have fun!
Greg
  

"To invent, you need a good imagination and a pile of junk" T. A. Edison
"If you don't know what leever A does, then leever B... you Dumb@$$" G.C. Tryon
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Re: Another new guy with some questions
Reply #6 - May 23rd, 2020 at 8:09am
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Jack, are you shooting at Rowan County? Thanks, ratseye
  
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Jack951
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Re: Another new guy with some questions
Reply #7 - May 24th, 2020 at 8:15am
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So anybody shooting 50-70?
  

A gentleman cannot have too much red wine, too many good books nor too much ammunition
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Re: Another new guy with some questions
Reply #8 - May 24th, 2020 at 5:07pm
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Sure, mostly with SR 4759 and a little with 5744 besides some duplex with BP and straight BP. Actually the 2 Lee moulds which duplicate 515141 (the Govt bullet - 450 grains) and 515142 (NY Regiments for long range - 515 grains) work quite well and are a very inexpensive way to try those bullets. The RCBS 50-515-FN is a nice bullet and has a larger meplat so should be good for hunting. I suppose the twist of your military roller will be on the slower side so that may affect what weight bullet it will like. My experience with spire pointed bullets at BP velocities says they may be fine, maybe even quite accurate, for shorter distances but will become unreliable at longer ones.
  
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Re: Another new guy with some questions
Reply #9 - yesterday at 8:18am
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We shoot Single shots Plain base cast At the NRA 500 meter ram hung from chains at 200 yards at Cavalier in Montpelier VA. 40 shot COF. Match started at Fairfax R&G mid 60s by our match directors father. He brought the match to our club when HP silhouette died off. 25 + shooters first Sat every month. Also run a 10 shot 500 yard offhand match on reduced Buffalo target off daylight time months. 40 inch sweet spot.

Our rule is 32 caliber or over. Smaller hard to spot hits. No maximum size 50/70 allowed few used. Many serious competitors others shoot obscure single shots just for fun.

Match winning rifles 38/55 most common. With the the best sights available. Offhand you are putting a shotgun like pattern on the steel painted target. Sweet spot about 18 inches & it takes 90% to top 3. Its real important to keep groups centered up so you don't loose edge shots. Sights adjusted as the match progresses, cold start warm finish may need 1 or 2 moa sight adjustment. Ram is wide however see shots develop off center wind adjustment taken.

My suggestion shoot what you have for fun. Get serious 38/55 with a good trigger and tang sight. I started with a Trapdoor 1992, went to a CPA 1993 path many others have chosen. Drive up one Sat get a look at lots of rifles and options.

Boats

« Last Edit: yesterday at 8:24am by boats »  
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