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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Looking for help on a Remington #7 RB Build (Read 1346 times)
bobw
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Looking for help on a Remington #7 RB Build
Feb 19th, 2021 at 6:52pm
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This build is from a casting and is fully functional other than the main spring.  I did put 3 round threw it today by just clamping a spring to the lower tang, crude but it worked.

My problem is where the main spring mounts on original guns.  I've been told it needs to be attached to the top tang and this could be confirmed correct by looking at the De Haas diagram because that is what it shows.  But, digging around on the internet, and from my  photos of original guns, it appears that it might be attached to the lower tang.  I have added 4 photos to this post to generally show what I am seeing.  If the spring is attached to the top tang it is attached with a blind threaded hole because I'm not seeing a screw coming through the tang in any pictures I have found.  On the other hand, I found several guns that have what appears to be a screw coming through the lower tang just in front of the wood screw.  So...I would never ask anyone to remove a stock from an expensive gun but would like to know if anyone might have a photo of a #7 with the stock off, or if not, can possibly confirm the location of the spring, top or bottom?  I'm fully aware of the coil spring conversion but I'm preferring to go with what was originally done. 
The first picture is the top tang of a gun I took photos of.  The second is a lower tang view taken from the internet.  The others are side views kind of hinting at what they have.
Thanks,
Bob
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Looking for help on a Remington #7 RB Build
Reply #1 - Feb 19th, 2021 at 7:00pm
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The mainspring attaches to the lower tang, not the top tang. At least the two examples I've seen with the stock off were done so. 
Your 2nd picture shows what I saw. The end of the screw shank appeared to be flush with the tang when tightened.
  

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bobw
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Re: Looking for help on a Remington #7 RB Build
Reply #2 - Feb 19th, 2021 at 7:05pm
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That was fast, thanks.  I wonder where De Haas got his info!  I donít suppose I would be lucky enough that you got pictures?
  
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MrTipUp
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Re: Looking for help on a Remington #7 RB Build
Reply #3 - Feb 19th, 2021 at 7:55pm
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Since its action is based on the Model 1871 pistol's, I'd guess that  the No. 7's mainspring attaches in the same way as the pistol's.  Perhaps you can find a schematic of that earlier gun.

Bill Lawrence
  
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bobw
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Re: Looking for help on a Remington #7 RB Build
Reply #4 - Feb 19th, 2021 at 8:36pm
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Bill, I did take a look that way and the schematics I found do show it on the back.  But there is a big difference in the shape of the tang between the two so not sure it helps.  Thanks though.
  
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Chuckster
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Re: Looking for help on a Remington #7 RB Build
Reply #5 - Feb 20th, 2021 at 10:12am
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Bob, An ambitious and challenging project. Be sure to post pictures when you get it put together.
Chuck
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Looking for help on a Remington #7 RB Build
Reply #6 - Feb 20th, 2021 at 10:44am
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I didn't take pictures as I wasn't at his house to take pictures when he had it apart. I do recall the mainspring had a dogleg, or hump to it to correct the angle from front lower or front tang to the hammer angle.
Which of DeHaas' books shows the #7? I looked at my copy of his first book, "Single Shot Rifles and Actions" and it's not even listed? I have all his books, but haven't looked in the others yet? Is it in his Gunsmithing Single Shots book? Not sure why he'd show it attached to the top or back tang?
  

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bobw
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Re: Looking for help on a Remington #7 RB Build
Reply #7 - Feb 20th, 2021 at 10:45am
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Looks like today I will do a more appropriate mockup of a spring on the lower tang and make sure thing work as they should.

Chuck will do that.  Actually it has been a fairly straight forward build, although have had to pick Gregs brain a few times!  Now adding wood my be another story.
Bob
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Looking for help on a Remington #7 RB Build
Reply #8 - Feb 20th, 2021 at 10:57am
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I had a good friend who years ago purchased a "#7 Rolling Block" in .22LR and called me excited to tell me about it. We arranged to get together a couple days later so I could see it. He got it at what was a very good price for these rare rifles, and the condition was minty, as a restoration.
When I first handled it I immediately felt like something wasn't quite right, but not having examined a lot of them previously I didn't say anything. But the more we looked at it, the more I questioned it's authenticity in my mind. I finally asked him if we could pull the stocks off and check to see how it looked internally. On removing the forearm I could immediately tell it was a replacement, as was the barrel. But being restored we didn't expect different. But when we pulled the buttstock we immediately saw the welds that had been done to reshape the tangs, and knew it was a well done (externally) fake. 
The gun likely started out as either a Rolling Block pistol, or a #2 rifle. The top tang had been cut off, and a new tang shaped and welded on. Then metal added to get the hump where the sight would sit. That's the area that made me question it before taking it apart. That and the tang sight itself looked a little off.
The lower tang was bent, and the mainspring was custom built and attached like originals I'd seen. Overall, at a glance, or to someone totally unfamiliar with the #7 it looked good. Just not great.
My friend passed away a few years ago, and another friend sold his guns for him. I asked about the fake #7, as I was interested in buying it, if it could be had cheap enough. But he said it wasn't found, so likely my friend had already resold it, and someone else has it now.

Here's a post on the Remington Society's page that is a good source of some details on the #7, but doesn't cover the mainspring.

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bobw
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Re: Looking for help on a Remington #7 RB Build
Reply #9 - Feb 20th, 2021 at 11:07am
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Val, I was adding to this when you posted.  I figured it would need a hump as you are saying, kind of like a Stevens 44 humped spring.

The De Haas book is the thinner one that is titled "More Single Shot Rifles and Actions".  Here's a copy of the picture in the book.  To me there is a lot about the diagram that is incorrect about the #7.  The top tang appears short to me, the lower has a lot tighter radius than what originals appear to have and the frame extension, that make the #7 unique, has no thickness in the diagram and turns up more than the originals appear to have.
Thanks for your help on this.
Bob
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Looking for help on a Remington #7 RB Build
Reply #10 - Feb 20th, 2021 at 11:20am
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Your description of it being like the Stevens mainspring is spot on! That's almost exactly how they looked to me. 
Not sure if DeHaas was imagining how the old pistols were reworked into a #7 by Remington workers, or why he'd show the spring attached to the top tang as shown?
  

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Re: Looking for help on a Remington #7 RB Build
Reply #11 - Feb 20th, 2021 at 1:08pm
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a lovely rifle   what caliber?  art
  
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bobw
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Re: Looking for help on a Remington #7 RB Build
Reply #12 - Feb 20th, 2021 at 1:46pm
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art..22 lr
  
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Re: Looking for help on a Remington #7 RB Build
Reply #13 - Feb 20th, 2021 at 6:25pm
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Here is what my repro action looks like on the inside.  I think Rodney copied an original when he made these.  The spring is really very simple once you figure out the geometry.   
Bruce
  
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bobw
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Re: Looking for help on a Remington #7 RB Build
Reply #14 - Feb 20th, 2021 at 6:46pm
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Thanks Bruce!  Didnít know what it looked like but had an idea what I thought. Made one today that looked nearly identical to yours.  The only problem I didnít make it heavy enough.  If I would have stuck with my original plan it may have worked, but didnít and thinned it down at the last minute because I thought it was to heavy.  Oh well, Iíll make another in the next couple days.  Again thanks, that picture is a big help!
Bob
  
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