Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 [2] 3 4  Send TopicPrint
Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Hartford Pope rifle (Read 4813 times)
JLouis
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Online



Posts: 8945
Joined: Apr 8th, 2009
Re: Hartford Pope rifle
Reply #15 - Feb 24th, 2021 at 5:09pm
Print Post  
Could not find anything in his catalog about twist rates. 
But allot about using Winchester's uncut barrels and the entire rifle as furnished by Winchester also with an uncut barrel for those who wanted a complete rifle of which he did not do.
  

Every Time You Try And Fail The Closer You Are To Achieving Success.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
marlinguy
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline


Ballards may be weaker,
but they sure are neater!

Posts: 13513
Location: Oregon
Joined: Feb 2nd, 2009
Re: Hartford Pope rifle
Reply #16 - Feb 24th, 2021 at 7:42pm
Print Post  
JLouis wrote on Feb 24th, 2021 at 5:09pm:
Could not find anything in his catalog about twist rates. 
But allot about using Winchester's uncut barrels and the entire rifle as furnished by Winchester also with an uncut barrel for those who wanted a complete rifle of which he did not do.


No, he didn't advertise twist rates, and I bet he didn't do whatever the customer requested either. Pope knew what worked, and I'd bet if a customer told him what twist rate he wanted he'd likely have been told to go elsewhere. Pope never struck me as someone who let customers tell him how to do things.

The info on his twist rates can be found in the data Claude Roderick gathered from codes under the forearms of Pope barrels. The 1:21/ 1.41 was his twist rate for the .33-47 caliber barrels.
  

(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
JLouis
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Online



Posts: 8945
Joined: Apr 8th, 2009
Re: Hartford Pope rifle
Reply #17 - Feb 24th, 2021 at 8:59pm
Print Post  
What would be very interesting is to know how many Winchester uncut barrels that he actually reamed and cut. And the same goes for the amount of complete Winchester rifles he also did. He must of had a tremendous amount faith in the quality of Winchester's barrels and how the steel was actually being made. To also satisfy him enough to guarantee the accuracy of his own cut barrel process. He also clearly stated that he did not need the action for Winchester actions they were all interchangeable at the time and no individual fitting that was not at all required. That alone is an amazing thing Winchester had their process way above all of the rest and all of their parts were interchangeable.
  

Every Time You Try And Fail The Closer You Are To Achieving Success.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
marlinguy
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline


Ballards may be weaker,
but they sure are neater!

Posts: 13513
Location: Oregon
Joined: Feb 2nd, 2009
Re: Hartford Pope rifle
Reply #18 - Feb 25th, 2021 at 11:22am
Print Post  
The info on complete rifles he bought from Winchester would be easy to get from the Cody museum as those checked with Pope markings that he ordered as complete rifles, just pilot bored but not rifled have shown in Winchester records.
The hard part is just locating the missing rifles. Since there are holes in the records of Pope rifles Claude Roderick gathered, there are Pope rifles like the one that started this post, that aren't in Roderick's data in the ASSRA archives. But as they show up, and are determined to begin life as complete Winchester rifles, they can be checked in factory records.
The barrels alone that he bought present another whole issue. Since the parts barrels aren't recorded it would take examination of individual Winchester barrels with Pope rifling and codes, to determine if they are parts dept. barrels, or rebores.
  

(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
JLouis
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Online



Posts: 8945
Joined: Apr 8th, 2009
Re: Hartford Pope rifle
Reply #19 - Feb 25th, 2021 at 12:36pm
Print Post  
Might be some Pope HiWalls out there that might be just looked at as coming from the Winchester factory when being handed down and don't actually realize what they have. Allot of times we tend to take things for granted by having a sense that everyone knows about Pope, Schoyen, Zischang, Peterson and some of the rest. To some of the folks that might have some of these rifles its just another rifle to then. Quite a few years back I bought a 28-30 Stevens Pope and what I would consider to be a Wood Chuck rifle. 0441/2 action, straight stock, original tang sight, barrel left hand gain twist and condition I would put at 98%. It just had one little spot on the bottom of the lever the rest of the rifle appeared to be used very little if at all. It was on Gunbroker as a buy it now for $100.00 and one of the gentleman on this site now owns that rifle. If memory serves me right he was going to do a write up about that rifle. Rifle was listed as single shot 22 or something to that affect and came from Washington state. Figured worse case it would be a wall hanger and I knew it was a 441/2 action by the picture and of poor quality. By the time I paid transfer fees, shipping was free I was only into it for around $140.00 dollars + or -.
« Last Edit: Feb 25th, 2021 at 12:49pm by JLouis »  

Every Time You Try And Fail The Closer You Are To Achieving Success.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
cdog
Newbie
*
Offline



Posts: 7
Joined: Apr 9th, 2015
Re: Hartford Pope rifle
Reply #20 - Feb 25th, 2021 at 4:12pm
Print Post  
I am caretaker of Hartford 13  Pope Winchester, 33-47. The Pope 13 stamp is 1/4" forward of  the action under the spring and mine also has a 12 stamp in the same font as one pictured close to where the fore grip attaching screw is located.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
scharfe
Senior Forum Member
****
Offline


A good plan today beats
a perfect plan tomorrow.

Posts: 423
Location: ny / pa line
Joined: Dec 18th, 2006
Re: Hartford Pope rifle
Reply #21 - Feb 25th, 2021 at 5:28pm
Print Post  
Soooooooooo... There is a possibility that #329 could be a Pope rebore of a lower # Pope ?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
scharfe
Senior Forum Member
****
Offline


A good plan today beats
a perfect plan tomorrow.

Posts: 423
Location: ny / pa line
Joined: Dec 18th, 2006
Re: Hartford Pope rifle
Reply #22 - Feb 25th, 2021 at 6:21pm
Print Post  
# 13 must have 13 on the false muzzle then and so what does the 12 mean ?
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
scharfe
Senior Forum Member
****
Offline


A good plan today beats
a perfect plan tomorrow.

Posts: 423
Location: ny / pa line
Joined: Dec 18th, 2006
Re: Hartford Pope rifle
Reply #23 - Mar 1st, 2021 at 1:41pm
Print Post  
Pictures I am getting are poor. The current owner is very helpful though.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
scharfe
Senior Forum Member
****
Offline


A good plan today beats
a perfect plan tomorrow.

Posts: 423
Location: ny / pa line
Joined: Dec 18th, 2006
Re: Hartford Pope rifle
Reply #24 - Mar 1st, 2021 at 1:48pm
Print Post  
The triggers don't look like Winchester. The butt reminds me of a Schoyen, the forearm looks original.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
JerryH
Oldtimer
*****
Offline


ASSRA Member #10876

Posts: 893
Location: Easton, CA
Joined: Nov 9th, 2014
Re: Hartford Pope rifle
Reply #25 - Mar 1st, 2021 at 1:55pm
Print Post  
Could that be a Singer stock? Maybe the triggers also? 

JerryH
  

I'm not a complete idiot, some of my parts are missing.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
JLouis
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Online



Posts: 8945
Joined: Apr 8th, 2009
Re: Hartford Pope rifle
Reply #26 - Mar 1st, 2021 at 2:19pm
Print Post  
Triggers resemble those made by Otto Bremmer of San Francisco Ca.
  

Every Time You Try And Fail The Closer You Are To Achieving Success.
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
oodmoff
Full Member
***
Offline



Posts: 230
Location: colorado springs
Joined: Jan 12th, 2009
Re: Hartford Pope rifle
Reply #27 - Mar 1st, 2021 at 2:50pm
Print Post  
Jerry that checkpiece looks awfully "singer-ish" doesn't it..although the large drop and resulting contour of wood I would say is a bit taller than what I  have seen on his other efforts (not that i have seen that many).  Sure works well with the contour of the bottom tang.   Not sure about the trigger work...I giggle a bit thinking that Bremmer didn't seem to be able to work on a gun without putting that  trademark checking on it....   Memory is starting to fade a bit, need to look at some photos and re-educate myself.

Great looking piece none the less.  Envious!

Off topic but i'll always loved the looks of the singer palm rest (not present on this rifle).
« Last Edit: Mar 1st, 2021 at 3:08pm by oodmoff »  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
marlinguy
Frequent Elocutionist
*****
Offline


Ballards may be weaker,
but they sure are neater!

Posts: 13513
Location: Oregon
Joined: Feb 2nd, 2009
Re: Hartford Pope rifle
Reply #28 - Mar 1st, 2021 at 5:30pm
Print Post  
The triggers do look like some Bremmer triggers, but buttstock doesn't look like any Bremmer rifles I've seen? And Bremmer marked his buttplates, and I'd expect if he'd done part of this gun he'd mark his work somewhere.
I haven't seen a lot of Singer's stock work, so can't say if this might be his or not?
  

(You need to Login or Register to view media files and links)
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
scharfe
Senior Forum Member
****
Offline


A good plan today beats
a perfect plan tomorrow.

Posts: 423
Location: ny / pa line
Joined: Dec 18th, 2006
Re: Hartford Pope rifle
Reply #29 - Mar 1st, 2021 at 5:50pm
Print Post  
Springer marked lever rifled by Pope while in Hartford. Sold at auction last year. Probably a Singer stock.
  
Back to top
 
IP Logged
 
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 
Send TopicPrint