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« Created by: Cbashooter on: Mar 1st, 2021 at 12:09am »
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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Tired bore should I keep fighting it? (Read 1911 times)
Cbashooter
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Tired bore should I keep fighting it?
Feb 28th, 2021 at 5:46pm
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My recent purchase 44-1/2 in 32-40 has a #5 barrel.its a wonderful to handle rifle but I think im fighting a lost cause.my initial shooting (breech seat) yielded  3"  groups at 100 yards.the barrel has a very grey rounded over lands bore.it doesn't lead,it just picks up crud.im.into it about 400 sjots now playing with different bullets designs,breech seat depth and base diameter has it wanting to shoot under inch but the thing just throws flyers randomly to ruin a good group.
Should I rebore ?or any suggestions you have  help out a tired tube.pics of bore included.
  
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Jeff Houck
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Re: Tired bore should I keep fighting it?
Reply #1 - Feb 28th, 2021 at 6:43pm
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These pictures of your rifle's bore, are they of a dirty bore or a clean bore?
 
If these pictures are of a dirty bore, would you please post some pictures of a clean bore.

Do you know the approxamate age of this rifle?

Also, the targets you've posted, what are the dimensions. I'm guessing that it's a 2" circle.
  

Jeff Houck
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Cbashooter
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Re: Tired bore should I keep fighting it?
Reply #2 - Feb 28th, 2021 at 8:51pm
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Jeff Houck wrote on Feb 28th, 2021 at 6:43pm:
These pictures of your rifle's bore, are they of a dirty bore or a clean bore?
 
If these pictures are of a dirty bore, would you please post some pictures of a clean bore.

Do you know the approxamate age of this rifle?

Also, the targets you've posted, what are the dimensions. I'm guessing that it's a 2" circle.



Bore after cleaning.circles are 2".

Barrel is factory stevens.im.guessing 100 years old.
  
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RSW
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Re: Tired bore should I keep fighting it?
Reply #3 - Feb 28th, 2021 at 9:09pm
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Cbashooter
If your sample targets have a 2" circle, it appears those groups are about 1.5". What are your accuracy expectations?
Without any specifics about your rifle, sights, bench rest setup, powder & charges plus what bullets you are using, it's hard to asses what might be happening. Your 1.5" groups are actually not bad shooting if you have only put 400 rounds through that rifle. Please don't give up, you are just getting to know that rifle.
  

Randy W
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Cbashooter
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Re: Tired bore should I keep fighting it?
Reply #4 - Feb 28th, 2021 at 9:24pm
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RSW the groups were just the last 4 shot today.I've shot a few smaller but what I wanted to show was the group shapes

I've been using H4227,5744 and odly the best has been with Hogden CFE Pistol .
The bullets have been mostly the Hudson bullet and a NOE copy of the pointed "French" bullet.Bullets are cast  20-1 and 16-1.
The rear  rest is a old bunny ear  and a Hart front with a thin bag for the barrel to slide in.
I'd hoped the heavy gun would shoot well under 3/4" for some of the load development.
It just appears to start to shoot well than goes haywire a bit then settles down.for a bit.
  
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ssdave
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Re: Tired bore should I keep fighting it?
Reply #5 - Feb 28th, 2021 at 9:52pm
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What scope is on the rifle?

I had a winchester 52 that did a similar thing, I eventually boiled it down to inconsistency in the scope.  With a rimfire rifle, it's hard to separate out the ammo from the rifle when it comes to fliers.

Bad bores don't exhibit fliers so much as they exhibit larger groups.  In my opinion.  Stringing, or grouping with fliers typically points out an inconsistency in the rifle.

Have you put a wrap of teflon tape on the threads of your barrel, to help eliminate the possibility that the barrel is slightly loose?  If that changes the grouping, that might give you something to follow up on.   

Also, check the buttstock for looseness.  If it moves in any way, use some epoxy bedding to eliminate that movement.   

Returning the scope to battery the same way every time if you're using an Unertl or similar is another possible source of inconsistency.
  
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Cbashooter
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Re: Tired bore should I keep fighting it?
Reply #6 - Feb 28th, 2021 at 10:47pm
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20x Lyman STS with good track record.ive shot external adj scopes for 30 plus years and do seldom forget to reset but not often
So is the consensus that a worn bore couldn't be the issue of occasionally throwing one?
Here is another 5 shot group with the common wild one.
the stock is attached rock solid btw as is the barrel.
« Last Edit: Feb 28th, 2021 at 10:53pm by Cbashooter »  
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Bulseyetom
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Re: Tired bore should I keep fighting it?
Reply #7 - Feb 28th, 2021 at 11:33pm
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My questions about groups is always are you shooting with wind flags and then how stable is your bench.  I dabbled in short range centerfire bench rest for a few years and had a rifle that was capable of 1/8 moa. It did not take long to figure that to win you needed to shoot in the same condition each shot.  My practice range had nice sturdy benches of wood with the seat attached.  With the 36x scope you could see the crosshairs move on the target by just shifting your body on the seat. The next thing I learned was to load at the range so that you could adjust one variable at a time to fine tune the load.  That was never easy for me to do but I found I could premeasure loads into viles.  Now that i am shooting cast bullets I am pleased with groups like yours but like you keep trying to eliminate the flyers.  My thought is a 100 year old barrel might only get 1 moa accuracy with the best load and if your bench is not match quality you will be hard pressed to get that.  Nice shooting I say as many rifles won't do as good as you have shown.  Tom
  
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Cbashooter
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Re: Tired bore should I keep fighting it?
Reply #8 - Feb 28th, 2021 at 11:57pm
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Bulseyetom- concrete benches made for our hunter br matches.They are the best i have used.And yes i use windflags.
If the rifle wouldn't tease me with 4 shots tight many times I'd accept it.but it sure shows it wants to shoot.
If it doesnt work out I may have it made into  33-47 or 38-55 
  
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Cbashooter
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Re: Tired bore should I keep fighting it?
Reply #9 - Mar 1st, 2021 at 12:09am
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The rifle.
  
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Spud
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Re: Tired bore should I keep fighting it?
Reply #10 - Mar 1st, 2021 at 12:17am
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Have you considered fire-lapping? I've had good results with a couple of barrels (a.38/55 & a .40/70 SS) that were in similar shape to yours. A dry patch was "rough" to push through the bore. I thought that I really had nothing to lose as I was thinking of sleeving the barrel if it didn't work. My regime was 5 to 10 shots with lead bullets coated with #320 silicon carbide grit followed by 15-20 shots with #500 grit. Load was a light charge of Trailboss & bore cleaned between shots.
Final result in both cases was a bright & smoother bore, better defined lands (evident on soft lead slugs driven down the bore)  and a slight improvement in accuracy.
Now I realise that fire-lapping might not be everybody's cup of tea but it did work for me with these particular barrels & I'd try it again with a worn bore. The only warning is not to over do it as you can enlarge the throat. Just my 2 cents worth.....
Spud
  
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Cbashooter
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Re: Tired bore should I keep fighting it?
Reply #11 - Mar 1st, 2021 at 12:25am
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"Have you considered fire-lapping? "

I hadn't thought of that.i have an old NECO kit I will dig out.though a dry patch is very smoothe through the barrel
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Tired bore should I keep fighting it?
Reply #12 - Mar 1st, 2021 at 10:18am
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Do you cast your own bullets, and sort them by weight to tight tolerances?
  

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Re: Tired bore should I keep fighting it?
Reply #13 - Mar 1st, 2021 at 10:28am
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Being a Stevens the first thing I'd look at  would be a loose butt stock.Even the smallest loss of contact will behave exactly like this....Every 44 and 44-1/2 I ever owned needed a little help in this regard.
 
Also,please know that relining that bore is no guarantee of better groups...Even the most highly regarded gunsmiths have a bad day, I wish I had never sent my Ballard out to be relined, it's no better than it was and I'm out six hundred bucks .
  
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Cbashooter
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Re: Tired bore should I keep fighting it?
Reply #14 - Mar 1st, 2021 at 11:10am
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bluesman wrote on Mar 1st, 2021 at 10:28am:
Being a Stevens the first thing I'd look at  would be a loose butt stock.Even the smallest loss of contact will behave exactly like this....Every 44 and 44-1/2 I ever owned needed a little help in this regard.
 
Also,please know that relining that bore is no guarantee of better groups...Even the most highly regarded gunsmiths have a bad day, I wish I had never sent my Ballard out to be relined, it's no better than it was and I'm out six hundred bucks .


Rebore,not relined.
  
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