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Very Hot Topic (More than 25 Replies) Re-chamber 40-70SS to 40-65 (Read 777 times)
CptCurl
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Re: Re-chamber 40-70SS to 40-65
Reply #15 - Jul 21st, 2021 at 9:58pm
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George Babits wrote on Jul 21st, 2021 at 1:24pm:
I have 3 rifles in 40-70 SS and they all shoot pretty well.  Black powder in an original Sharps and a rebored Remington rolling block, and smokless powder in a Shiloh.   I see 1" groups all the time at 100 yards from the sitting position.

George


Hi George,

I am curious to know what smokeless load you are using in your Shiloh.  I have a Shiloh in .40-70SS and have been thinking of trying smokeless for the heck of it.   

So far, just black, though.

Thx,
Curly
  
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Bulseyetom
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Re: Re-chamber 40-70SS to 40-65
Reply #16 - Jul 21st, 2021 at 10:16pm
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I like 24 grains to 27 grains of Shooter's World Buffalo powder or the same of #5744 in my Hepburn and Sharps 1875.  Tom
  
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577Nitro
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Re: Re-chamber 40-70SS to 40-65
Reply #17 - Jul 22nd, 2021 at 7:44am
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I agree George, and with everyone's inputs to consider, I think I'll stay the course with 40-65 that I have and am still very much tinkering with ,and had been sick for several months. Getting the singles is a challenge not unlike my double rifles that dearly want to have regulating loads no matter the powder or bullet. The particular rifle I am looking at is on BuffaloArms web and is a 1885 falling block complete with scope which is nice.
  

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George Babits
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Re: Re-chamber 40-70SS to 40-65
Reply #18 - Jul 22nd, 2021 at 9:33am
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Curly,

My Shiloh 40-70 SS has a 1 in 22 twist and I am using 22.5 grains of 4659 and 26.0 grains of 4198 with a 335 grain bullet.   Both loads shoot about the same.  The 4198 looks really crappy on the chronograph but I usually shoot 1" groups with it at 100 yards sitting.   The 4759 load looks great on the chronograph, but usually the 4198 load beats it by a little on paper,  again sitting position without cross sticks.  The 4198 load is 1570 fps; the 4759, 1513 fps.

I think the newer Shiloh rifles probably have a faster twist so might not stabalize the 335 grain bullet from an Accurate Mould.   My rebored  number 1 rolling block has a 1 in 16 twist and wants a 400 grain bullet.

George
« Last Edit: Jul 22nd, 2021 at 1:28pm by George Babits »  
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marlinguy
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Re: Re-chamber 40-70SS to 40-65
Reply #19 - Jul 22nd, 2021 at 12:13pm
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The .40-70SS is basically identical to the .40-70 Ballard cartridge, and I own 4 Ballard rifles in the .40-70 Ballard, plus two Remingtons (Hepburn and rolling Block) in the .40-70SS. All get loaded with .405 Hornady brass and all shoot extremely well.
It's unfortunate that Hornady stopped making their .405 brass, but it can still be found occasionally, and prices aren't nearly as expensive as any of the lathe turned brass is. Luckily I bought large amounts of .405 Hornady brass when it came out, and some at great prices when it was occasionally found on sale even! If I'd known they were ever going to stop I'd have bought even more of it!
I personally would not rechamber the gun, and would just keep searching for .405 brass, or buy the BACO stretched brass. Another option that's easy, and not too spendy is to buy 9.3x74R brass and shorten it. It's a slightly smaller rim diameter, but in a new rifle with a good extractor it will still easily grab the rim and extract just fine. I've made up some brass from the 9.3 and it works great in any of my guns I've tried it in. It's a lot longer so I rough cut slightly long, and then final trim to length.
  

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George Babits
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Re: Re-chamber 40-70SS to 40-65
Reply #20 - Jul 22nd, 2021 at 1:30pm
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The 9.3 x 74R may not chamber in the modern 40-70 chamber.   It is just a bit fatter at the base.   Works great in the Ballard chambering though.   I haven't tried putting any of mine into either the Shilor or the rolling block.   

George
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Re-chamber 40-70SS to 40-65
Reply #21 - Jul 22nd, 2021 at 1:53pm
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George Babits wrote on Jul 22nd, 2021 at 1:30pm:
The 9.3 x 74R may not chamber in the modern 40-70 chamber.   It is just a bit fatter at the base.   Works great in the Ballard chambering though.   I haven't tried putting any of mine into either the Shilor or the rolling block.  

George


The 9.3x74R specs say it's a .469" base, and specs for the .40-70SS show as a .471" base. Not sure what Shiloh is using, but one of my Hepburns is a relined barrel with new chamber, and all accept the 9.3 brass run through my .40-70SS dies.
  

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Re: Re-chamber 40-70SS to 40-65
Reply #22 - Jul 22nd, 2021 at 3:59pm
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That .471 base is the 40-63/70 Ballard.   Those based on the 30-40 would have a base of .457 and rim of .540.   Chambers based 405 for the 40-70 should be .461 base and .543 for the rim.  But, that isn't to say all chambers are cut the same.   My original 40-70 Sharps needs the bigger Ballard cases made from the 9.3 X 74R.   My Shiloh digests 405 cases just fine but I haven't tried any of the stretched 30-40 cases I've been using int he Remington.   My guess is that they would be just fine.

I've never messed witht he 40-65, but I think there are several different chamberings for that as well.

George
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Re-chamber 40-70SS to 40-65
Reply #23 - Jul 22nd, 2021 at 4:59pm
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As I said, they work in all of mine, as do the .405 cases. Whether they're my Ballard rifles, my original rolling Block .40-70SS, or my Hepburn newly chambered to whatever .40-70SS reamer was used.
  

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Re: Re-chamber 40-70SS to 40-65
Reply #24 - Jul 22nd, 2021 at 5:27pm
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That's pretty amazing,    I can chamber the 405 and stretched 30-40 brass in the original Sharps.   Next time I have the others out I'll see if I can chamber the stuff made from 9.3x74R in the Remington and Shiloh.    Are you resizing the 9.3 brass in the standard 40-70 die or the Ballard dies?

George
  
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marlinguy
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Re: Re-chamber 40-70SS to 40-65
Reply #25 - Jul 23rd, 2021 at 8:14am
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George Babits wrote on Jul 22nd, 2021 at 5:27pm:
That's pretty amazing,    I can chamber the 405 and stretched 30-40 brass in the original Sharps.   Next time I have the others out I'll see if I can chamber the stuff made from 9.3x74R in the Remington and Shiloh.    Are you resizing the 9.3 brass in the standard 40-70 die or the Ballard dies?

George


I use the .40-70SS dies for all of them. But once fired I don't full length size again.
  

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Re: Re-chamber 40-70SS to 40-65
Reply #26 - Jul 24th, 2021 at 5:50pm
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So should I bite the bullet, and go ahead and buy the rifle?.Seems that I would be facing as many a 3 different chamber issues. The idea of just blowing out Krag brass is a good choice, but what about the chamber issue, will a blown out Krag need some tuning to work in the chamber?
  

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George Babits
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Re: Re-chamber 40-70SS to 40-65
Reply #27 - Jul 24th, 2021 at 6:35pm
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A "blown out Krag" is a bit too short.   To use the 30-40 case it has to be blown out and stretched a bit to become the 40-70.    A blown out Krag case without stretching is what used to be called the "40 Krag."   In newspeak it is the 40-60 Maynard, but that is a mis-nomer too as the 40-60 Maynard used a somewhat larger diameter bullet.

George
  
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Re: Re-chamber 40-70SS to 40-65
Reply #28 - Jul 24th, 2021 at 7:30pm
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Well then, this particular rifle has already been lined at some point in its time, is there any issue with re-lining again? if not then back to my original question and go with 40-65 which I have and it shoots well, but want another rifle for my wife to shoot.
  

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Re: Re-chamber 40-70SS to 40-65
Reply #29 - Jul 24th, 2021 at 8:09pm
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577Nitro wrote on Jul 24th, 2021 at 5:50pm:
So should I bite the bullet, and go ahead and buy the rifle?.Seems that I would be facing as many a 3 different chamber issues. The idea of just blowing out Krag brass is a good choice, but what about the chamber issue, will a blown out Krag need some tuning to work in the chamber?


Blown out Krag, or .303 British cases will be too short. BACO stretches their cases to make them, so they're blown out and stretched too. I've formed a lot of cases, but never had a way to stretch them as BACO does.

I don't see 3 issues in reloading for this cartridge? Just buy the BACO cases, or .405 Win. brass if you can find it. I see no problem reloading for the .40-70SS, unless you're new to reloading in general?
  

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