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lion
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32-40 bullet speed
Nov 23rd, 2021 at 4:04pm
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Please don't spit coffee on your keyboard laughing at this question. I'm not a black powder shooter so bear with me. With 22 rf we want to keep the speed below sound speed. Why isn't the 32-40 downloaded to 1100 ft per sec? Maybe it is but I haven't heard about it. Just bored and looking for things to learn. Wayne
  
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rgchristensen
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Re: 32-40 bullet speed
Reply #1 - Nov 23rd, 2021 at 4:50pm
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A lot of the old ctgs that we still shoot are usually loaded to drive their bullets at 12-1400 fps.    Don't know whether this is from utility, tradition, or inertia.   5-6 years ago, I did well at RATON in military class with a TD Springfield purposely loaded subsonic, and with only a 400 gr bullet.   This performed adequately out to 600 yd, and was very comfortable to shoot.

There is an advantage of lesser wind drift at the lower velocities, but it requires a load which gives very small velocity SD's.   The motive was lower recoil, however

CHRIS
  
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JLouis
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Re: 32-40 bullet speed
Reply #2 - Nov 23rd, 2021 at 6:32pm
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I have tried it and I mean extensively with my 15 twist 32-40. It just didn't work out for me for competitive 200 yard Benchrest match use.
  

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lion
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Re: 32-40 bullet speed
Reply #3 - Nov 23rd, 2021 at 6:43pm
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Thanks for the responses. I was thinking it would have the trajectory of a Red Ryder BB gun at 100 yards.
  
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Schuetzendave
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Re: 32-40 bullet speed
Reply #4 - Nov 23rd, 2021 at 6:47pm
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My accuracy improved as I increased my velocity from 1,400 fps to 1,526 fps.
My accuracy was poor at 1,100 fps.
  
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Jeff_Schultz
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Re: 32-40 bullet speed
Reply #5 - Nov 23rd, 2021 at 6:49pm
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Schuetzendave wrote on Nov 23rd, 2021 at 6:47pm:
My accuracy improved as I increased my velocity from 1,400 fps to 1,526 fps.
My accuracy was poor at 1,100 fps.

  Same here.
  

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marlinguy
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Re: 32-40 bullet speed
Reply #6 - Nov 23rd, 2021 at 6:56pm
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If you load a cartridge too low in velocity, it's usually too low in chamber pressure also, which results in not sealing the chamber well. If the case doesn't seal the chamber well, then the accuracy will vary and not be as good as higher velocity.
In the case of long range shooting, guys have tried loading their cases with loads that are sub sonic, so they don't break the barrier going out the muzzle, and then again as the bullets get to longer distances. But those who have tried it still got dismal results, and gave up. 
I've found best accuracy with almost all my old cartridge loads (regardless of the rifle cartridge) at levels from 1275-1400 fps.
  

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lion
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Re: 32-40 bullet speed
Reply #7 - Nov 23rd, 2021 at 7:14pm
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I have been reading (The Golden Age of the American Schuetzenfest) by Randolph Schreiter Wright and thinking how it would have been to be the same age as the 1890 crowd and living it. I grew up in the 40s so missed it by a little. I like the modern conveniences and carried enough corn cobs & wood when I was young to know I wouldn't want to go back. The schuetzen rifles were nice though compared to the modern black ones. Enough rambling.
  
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marlinguy
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Re: 32-40 bullet speed
Reply #8 - Nov 23rd, 2021 at 7:22pm
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lion wrote on Nov 23rd, 2021 at 7:14pm:
I have been reading (The Golden Age of the American Schuetzenfest) by Randolph Schreiter Wright and thinking how it would have been to be the same age as the 1890 crowd and living it. I grew up in the 40s so missed it by a little. I like the modern conveniences and carried enough corn cobs & wood when I was young to know I wouldn't want to go back. The schuetzen rifles were nice though compared to the modern black ones. Enough rambling.


You're in good company here! The majority of us here love those old rifles, and enjoy seeing them, and reading about them. I like some things about the niceties of modern living, but sure wish many of those old rifles were still being made today!
  

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bpjack
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Re: 32-40 bullet speed
Reply #9 - Nov 23rd, 2021 at 7:34pm
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I just happened to chronograph my Ballard 30-30 Wesson load that I shot this group with on Monday and it came out about 1450fps.
That speed is typical of most of my accurate loads in various rifles.  

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« Last Edit: Nov 23rd, 2021 at 8:24pm by bpjack »  

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lion
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Re: 32-40 bullet speed
Reply #10 - Nov 23rd, 2021 at 8:18pm
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Here is my best 200 yd 5 shot group.  22RF and the wind was non existent. Done quite a while ago and been unable to repeat. Benchrest by the way, not offhand.
  
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Dellet
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Re: 32-40 bullet speed
Reply #11 - Nov 23rd, 2021 at 11:39pm
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lion wrote on Nov 23rd, 2021 at 4:04pm:
Please don't spit coffee on your keyboard laughing at this question. I'm not a black powder shooter so bear with me. With 22 rf we want to keep the speed below sound speed. Why isn't the 32-40 downloaded to 1100 ft per sec? Maybe it is but I haven't heard about it. Just bored and looking for things to learn. Wayne


Rimfire shooters are weird. They are about the only people that knowingly shoot at the worst possible speeds, and take pride in it.

From about 950-1350 is the transition from sub to super. That transonic window has more turbulence than both above and below. That’s why long distance shooters try to stay above it, and air gun shooters try to stay below it.

Cast bullets with lube grooves, have problems in the trans-sonic range partly because of the grooves. They actually accelerate the air and create their own shock wave,  Cannelures do the same same thing on jacketed bullets.

Staying above those speeds all the way to the Target is very helpful. 

“Sub sonic” shooting is just another variable to deal with, and probably the biggest challenge shooting into it at 1100 fps, is staying above 1000 fps. I have found  it easier to keep muzzle velocity's under 1000 fps. Accuracy improves as long as the twist rate is fast enough. 
  
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MartiniBelgian
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Re: 32-40 bullet speed
Reply #12 - Nov 24th, 2021 at 1:50am
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Pretty sure my 32-20 BP load (17.9 grs) with 174gr bullet will be around the 1000 fps range  But that is close to a max. load for the little case, might get 0.5 grs more powder in it, but not much more.
I do believe that if you want to shoot subsonic, you have to use a case allowing the correct powder density / pressure development, not just use a bigger case designed for higher velocities.
And a heavy bullet for the charge.  Light bullets won't do it.
  
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ISS
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Re: 32-40 bullet speed
Reply #13 - Nov 24th, 2021 at 2:49am
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As an aside; Dean Miller and I fiddled around with a breech seated 22rf back in the mid-90's.  I had a friend at an ammunition company in Minnesota that sent me a couple hundred primed 22 magnum cases.  We got Jerry Barnett (IIRC) to cut a 90 +/-gr semi spitzer mold.  The results were just short of sinfully small groups, but the traditionalists got wind of the program, and voted to ban BS 22rf.
Sigh...

In retrospect it was probably a bit on the edge.

Rich
  
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lion
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Re: 32-40 bullet speed
Reply #14 - Nov 24th, 2021 at 7:41am
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ISS wrote on Nov 24th, 2021 at 2:49am:
As an aside; Dean Miller and I fiddled around with a breech seated 22rf back in the mid-90's.  I had a friend at an ammunition company in Minnesota that sent me a couple hundred primed 22 magnum cases.  We got Jerry Barnett (IIRC) to cut a 90 +/-gr semi spitzer mold.  The results were just short of sinfully small groups, but the traditionalists got wind of the program, and voted to ban BS 22rf.
Sigh...

In retrospect it was probably a bit on the edge.

Rich


Maybe CCI should start making the dimpled 22RF cases and selling them primed with no powder or bullet. Would open up a whole new world for experimenting.
  
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